I think Brucies relationship to the shop needs to be more closely scrutinised I do not thinks these fish are being kept by Brucie long term they are being kept by him until they are too big for his tank and the shop then takes them back off him. In effect the shop allows brucie to grow these fish on for them.

I'm pretty sure I know which shop it is, I am not going to name it as I do not think they are doing anything wrong as they carefully help brucie look after the fish pretty well. Yes space would ultimately be at a premium if brucie kept these fish long term but he doesn't, they are generally rehomed at the shop before they get to big for his tanks. There are obviously some exceptions to this from time to time but brucie should not be viewed as a typical fishkeeper due to his relationship with this shop meaning he is in an unusual and enviable postion with regards to the fish he is able to keep.

Equally the mere fact he can keep some of these fish and they all look well is testiment to his ability at fish husbandry, he clearly knows his stuff when managing water conditions. Yes at times his tanks are over stocked and he has fish that are perhaps to large for the aquariums they are in but this is nearly always a short term problem.

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Alan

Thweeerp!

This is a good resource for ray husbandry tips and identification

http://www.freshwaterstingray.nl/Fra...s/English.html

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Alan

Thweeerp!

there are a few good sites out there? franks is pretty good and informative alot of the good ones are in german! which is pain in the ***! lol

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god loves u but some restrictions may apply!! lol

so what sort of money are we looking at for a couple of "small" rays and what sort of set up should they be kept in?

PS enough about Bruce now. I think he knows how we feel about "overstocking" now even if it is on a temporary basis. We can only TRY to educate and cannot force anyone to do something against their wills!

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http://www.gardenworksgb.co.uk

frank and this site is were my rays come frome i was driving over to holland once per year until i had health problems

you can get scobina from some of the german guys for 350 euros + shipping

i was breeding p14 last year and should be breeding again in 1.5yrs

p14 are a good sized black ray that have a max size of 16-18inch disk

hears a pic of the male i have in my breeding project

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well dependin on what exactly u wanted? like richard said you can get some of the rays direct from germany, i tend to stick with s/a for mine. The labelled histrix generally not the real one attain smaller size.The tank min 2ft wide height is not that much of an issue and the length min 6ft really, and as any fish water chemistry stable and clean. these fish i sell @ £60 and then upwards for size and species.

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god loves u but some restrictions may apply!! lol

Thats enough of picking on Bruce, he'll learn.

Stingray, you still havent explained why you think motoros would be fine in a 6x2x2 - thats just crazy so explain yourself please...? You say youve worked with rays for a while now...

Next you'll be saying flowers and tigers can be kept in a 8x2x2.

If anyone is thinking of keeping rays for the first time then please do extensive reserch. Most of those small teacup rays you see down the lfs rarly reach adulthood. They are sensitive but as long as you have a large tank with huge filtration so water conditions are stable they are not that hard.

mmmmm bruce seams to have gone from even his 2nd home MFK

its a shame

its no big deal bruce we all get flamed at some point about the fish we keep just take it on the chin like a man and move on