How do i change quality of water?

Fishie-Fingers · #1 06-02-2008, 09:17 PM

I have only had tank setup since April, I cycled it for a month, and now have fish and plants.
I would like to assimilate the natural water quality for the fish I have, I have in at the mo, mixed rainbows, blue flame tetras,and a bristlenose catfish.

My parameters atm are:

Ph 7.6
KH 6.7 degrees
GH 16.8 degrees

I know I could top up with RO water at water changes, but I dont have the money for one, and they are quite expensive when I realised the process wastes 3 litres out of 4!
I`ve had a look at the API tap water filter, these are less wasteful, but at a price, the replacement cartridges are expensive and if the water is on the hard side, like mine is, they dont last too long either.
Is there a natural way to achieve better water quality, or is it a case of just live with it?
All my fish are doin extremely well, I`ve even seen the rainbows spawning! so they must have adapted well.

I`ve heard of using peat or a water softener pillow in the filter? if I choose this route, will it mean I`ll have to use either of the methods I`ve mentioned continually to maintain the water parameters?, or will I just have to be aware of what I buy, plant or fish from now on that will be ok with the water I have coming from my tap?

Any advice will be thankfully received xx

Fry Lover · #2 06-02-2008, 09:51 PM

hello lady!

basically it would appear you are talking about getting softer water and using the word "quality" and associating it with soft water?

i might be wrong?

EDIT: you dont mention soft water at all, i am talking poo with the above!

i cant speak for water softening devices, never used them, i dont think the Ph, KH, GH figures are a problem for the fish you have listed.

i am not trying to "poo poo" your idea, dont get me wrong...

In terms of "water quality" one thing you may want to consider is a premium filter material such as Seachem Purigen, if you believe the company (Seachem) it does improve water quality by removing lots of organic waste that would otherwise be turned into ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Lots of peeps swear by it.

I am using it in 2 of 3 tanks as a kind of trial, so far results are promising (clearer water, less smell from tank) i haven't had it in long enough to really coment about whether or not it reduces nitrate, i am hoping it does.

However, with the water being clearer and there being less smell (especially in my parrot/oddball tank who get a lot of meat in their food) i would imagine it is removing waste that normal filtration doesnt remove. This also appears to be evidenced by the media becoming light brown (it starts brilliant white and when it's dark brown you need to recharge it).

You can also consider some of the JBL Nitrate removing media, heard good things about that.

Here is a link to Purigen

(i am not saying you need it, or that its necessary)

http://www.seachem.com/products/prod...s/Purigen.html

Fishie-Fingers · #3 06-02-2008, 10:07 PM

Hey FL,
All readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all sooper dooper.But that stuff you mentioned looks good, I`ve seen another thread where you recommend it, are you on commission!!!

But yes, its more the softness and the alkalinity side. I know you`ve offered advice before, (you always do, thanks mate!) about the KH and GH readings, I just wanted to get the water to be as close to their natural habitat as I can achieve.
am I right in thinking for a community and live plants the desired dGH should be around the 3.4 degres, and dKH around 4.5 degrees? Am I talkin wubbish?!!!!LOl,

Fry Lover · #4 06-02-2008, 10:23 PM

Basically there are plants that prefer (or perhaps need) softer water to flourish, so this would be lower GH and KH figures than both of us have (mine are similar to yours, my tap-water averages about 12dGH and 8dKH

There's no reason why you cant have a flourishing planted set-up with your readings, i have learnt to pick the plants that work best for my water, i am re-arranging my planted tank this week, will post the pics and names of plants later this week, you'll be suprised how nice it looks, hard water, no co2 just picking the right plants

In terms of getting the water as close to their natural habitat, thats tricky as the tetra's (acid) and rainbows (neutal or slightly alkaline? i believe) are different in terms of pH and the tetra's will certainly come from water's that are softer.

I like where you are coming from though, trying to get the extra edge to allow for your fish and set-up to fourish

Did you say you are using co2 from another thread? That will lower the pH and possibly make the water a bit softer i think?

The trouble with altering your tapwater parameters for the fish set-up is that it can become a cat and mouse game of trying to achieve consistency, plus time consuming and expensive.

I am not speaknig from experience, as i havent tried anything to alter my tapwater, but if i did want to change it for the benefit of my fish, i would get RO installed andthen learn how to adjust the RO with minerals (which you need to do), atleast that way you have consistency, as the RO (in theory) will always have the same parameters and if you add the same amount of minerals you (in theory) know what you are getting every week at your water change!

From what i've read, all these additives and including using peat can take a run and jump, too much faffing about for too little consistency and reliable end product (from what ive read on forums)

Fry Lover · #5 06-02-2008, 10:25 PM

by the way, test your GH again will you, i would like to see if it still comes out at 300 mg/l, i would expect a bit lower

Robert.Pope · #6 06-02-2008, 10:25 PM

On the subject of water ..........dont mess with what you have ! i went out and bought RO unit as i thought it was a must if you keep discus.....i had used so much of this so called wonderfull pure water that i had other complications.to much RO gave me a big fat zero for KH, Its important to have KH as this is the stuff that buffers your waters PH ......so in short unstable PH.

if you choose to mess with any one thing within water you will end up tipping the balance of another element.

swings and roundabouts!
stability is the key and if your fish are spawning in the tank then they are happy!

I know people dont like carbon filters.however when i have used them in the past they realy make the water sparkle!!! use them short term and bin them ! i pick it up cheap from aquatic shops bargin bin when they have split boxes !

one OLD MAN told me........keep fish that will live in your tap water .....no faffing about ........didnt ya TELBOY

.....and he is very right !

Fishie-Fingers · #7 06-02-2008, 10:31 PM

As always fella, your advice and experience always makes so much sense!
I guess as the fish are all flourishing and the plants are looking lots better, even got new shoots coming thro on some! I`ll just leave well alone, and work with what I have, I just wanted an experienced second opinion.
I shall choose my fish and plants carefully!
Would love some ideas for further purchases, what do you have in your community tank? I saw some of your rainbows, they are huge in comparison with my little tiddlers! how old are they?

Fry Lover · #8 06-02-2008, 10:34 PM

not sure how old my rainbows are, ive seen some bigger than mine, oooh i want to keep mine until they reach a good size, you dont see good size Rainbows in the LFS

Fishy, if your rainbows are laying eggs and your plants are shooting out runner's you got this hobby licked!

treat yourself to a daytrip to London, come and meet Fry Lover, Telboy and Peter MC and also Tina is local.

Fishie-Fingers · #9 06-02-2008, 10:39 PM

How weird you should mention London!
I`m in London, euston road tomoz for a 4o`clock appt, but I`m there every tuesday, so that would be cool to set something up, let me know when and where, we`ll go from there!

Fry Lover · #10 06-02-2008, 10:43 PM

lol, i work just round the corner from Euston Road, can walk there in 5mins from Grays Inn Road (Kings Cross)

Telboy lives out in the sticks (****fosters) so lets ditch him, dont tell him, mums the world