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| Posted | Freshwater treatment resistant white spot |
| 22-02-2006 08:34 by Alan |
I have what seems to be a treatment resistant whitespot it is not manifesting itself as white spot although it has done in the past and it seems to focus on the gills of fish.
I'm at a complete loss as to how to treat this I have tried the following. Octozin Sterazin Protozin WS3 The most effective has been Protozin but it is back again. I have tried salt as well and raising the temperature to speed up their cycle and leave them open to the chemicals but it keeps coming back. I am completing the courses of treatment by the way it seems to disappear for a week and then the tell tale flicking begins. Has anyone else on here come across it and if so are you still trying to tackle it or have you managed to irradicate it and if so how. I'm going to approach water life to see what they suggest I'm half expecting them to suggest a double strength dose of protozin. |
| 22-02-2006 09:38 by Alan |
I have come to the conclusion with discussions with waterlife that I have had more than one parasite I tend to agree with them I think I may have one or both of the following (from www.ukdiscus.com):
Dactylogyrus is recognized by having 4 eyespots and a 4 pointed caudal (rear) end. This species affects the area predominantly around the gills. Symptoms include rapid respiration, flicking, and flashing followed by periods of lethargy. Gyrodactylus has two eyespots, and a two pointed caudal end. This species mainly affects the skin. Symptoms include excessive mucous secretion, rubbing and scratching, leading to ulceration in long term cases. Formaldehyde is apparently effective at treating this. If it fails at least all my fish will be preserved! |
| 22-02-2006 11:08 by minalo1 |
Hi Alan, have had a similar experience about three year ago, but culprit turned out to be just white-spot (I think) persistent strain, (have to come up with a new name for it), just kept coming back on this one tank, although it took three treatment cycles to check this, just over 30 days of worry, giving 24 hrs rest between starting new treatment, checked gills on dead loach and found nothing (got a microscope ordinary school boy 50/100/150 magi should do).
Removed all fish to quarantine tank (bit of a squeeze) carried out three courses of treatment, although lost all me loaches after second treatment, used protozin as directed but think that as only dosing half measure with loaches present even then possibly the confined space and second application so soon after first treatment well kill or cure time, (would suggest leaving possibly 48 hours between treatments as it says on the bottle) if had same problem again, would treat loaches/scale less species in another tank. Last treatment gave full dose as required as had no loaches left anyway. The other thing I did was to strip the infected tank replenished all water, cleaned gravel and turned the heater right up when refilled (burnt all the plants). Cost me my favourite loach though, I found it more annoying with its repeated appearance in the one tank; any way haven’t had a repeat. |
| 22-02-2006 13:26 by Alan |
Nightmare, this is what Waterlife recommend.
Sterazin full dose twice a day for 10 days. Thats 30 mls a day for a 100 gallon tank. In total 300 mls over the ten days. Appararently sterazin is biologically unstable and is non-reactive very soon after application hence the 15mls twice a day I suppose. Waterlife have stated by doing this I will not overdose. On the 13th day carry out at least a 25% water change in reality it is more likely to be 50% as I will have to play catch up with my water changes. Then they advise carrying out two full courses of protozin treatment at full dose, leaving 3 days between the 2 courses. I will let you know if this works and if I suffer any losses. I have synos in the tank and they are unaffected by protozin at normal dose I have to say I very rarely bother with half doses it is a case of what will do more harm the parasite or the remedy and equally if a half dose does not kill the parasites they will become more resistant to the meds. |
| 22-02-2006 17:09 by minalo1 |
Have seen the upside-down syno beautiful and seemed quiet peaceful, are they getting quiet rare now? as the last ones I saw advertised wasn't cheap!
Back to your headache, anyway if that's the treatment course what waterlife recommend I wish you all the best, and will keep in touch. Good luck  |
| 22-02-2006 20:14 by JK |
Over the last couple of years I have seen several highly resistant outbreaks. Rumour has it that they originate from Asia.
The only reliable treatment for them seems to be using a U.V. This has proved so successful that I now use this method on any sensitive species rather than use chemicals. |
| 23-02-2006 08:52 by Alan |
Which particular syno are you refering to minalo1.
JK I have considered UV problem is UV never totally irradicates the beasts but it does keep the numbers down. |
| 24-02-2006 19:51 by JK |
Alan, I must have done this best part of 50 times, and provided that its left on long enough, I've never had a reoccurrence.
Admittedly I use a way oversize model for the job. 100 percent effective. |
| 26-02-2006 22:13 by deejdave |
Try emailing practical fish keeping magazine, one of their guys, I think professor Pete Burgess has been following this recently & it seems there is a resistant White Spot strain around at the moement, they might be able to advise. |
| 26-02-2006 22:14 by deejdave |
FAO JK, all a UV does is kill the free swimming stage of the disease, not the parasite on the fish, great for prevention but its not a cure...  |
| 26-02-2006 22:28 by JK |
True it only kills the free swimming stage, however I have great sucess using this method.
I recently cured a whole batch of histrionica loaches that came in with spot, using nothing else. I personally will never use chemicals again on sensitive speces like loaches etc. It will be interesting to see how Alan gets on with his treatments. |
| 26-02-2006 22:33 by Danny Boy |
water changes.....  |
| 26-02-2006 22:39 by JK |
Danny Boy, I have tried the siphoning and water changing daily bit, but not found it reliable. |
| 26-02-2006 23:59 by deejdave |
I know what u mean with regard to water changes, its like locking the gate after the horse has bolted, 99% of whitespot outbreaks are caused by lack of maintenance in the aquarium in the first place (whether that be at home or at the retailer supplying the fish!) |
| 27-02-2006 00:00 by deejdave |
I have mega doubts with regard to sterazin, have found very high nitrite & ammonia levels after using it at the reccomended dosage implying it has killed nitrifying (filter) bacteria...  |
| 28-02-2006 09:18 by Alan |
deejdave my tank will be in the 1% then as my tank parameters are spot on nitrate never getting above 12.5mg/l. Filtration is rated for a tank in the region of 400 imp gallons as well trust me maintenance is not the issue.
as far as the UV goes I suspect it is just decimating the population of white spot it keeps the back ground level low enabling the fish to recover you are basically replicating the effects of a river whitespot only becomes a problem in an enclosed system where fish cannot escape the parasite equally fish when healthy generally are not at risk from a low parasite population something else has to happen to trigger a major infestation again. I have had a similar experience in the past with sterazin therefore I am monitoring carefully and when I have finished the treatment I will be adding copious quantities of filter bacteria culture. Equally feeding is very low at the moment. As stated above I suspect it is a very tough body fluke that I have all the symptoms are identical to white spot but with out the spots formaldehyde is the key to treating it which sterazin has in it. |
| 06-03-2006 10:23 by Harry Bosch |
Be very careful with the formaldehide its lethal. Don`t inhale it or get it on your hands.
It causes irritation when it gets on skin and if inhaled it cn effect your liver/kidneys and lungs. Its also carcenogenic, it can cause cancer in humans.Use in a well ventilated area with gloves and a mask if you have one. If there is a white scum on top of the Formaldehide then it gone off and is called paraformaldehide and is lethal to fish. Personally I would salt bath three times a day with salt and met/blue until it is gone. Raise the temp to 33c.Find out what is causing the disease. Have you bought any new fish recently.Are fish being bullied, what are your water parameters. Are you doing enough water changes.Do ou use de-chlorinator. |
| 06-03-2006 12:12 by Alan |
Sterazin is officially pants hasn't worked one iota so I shall be trying something else.
2 compounds in mind one is formalin which sterazin is supposed to include in it this has not worked so the other is malachite green so I will give the latter a go. The sterazin did not effect the water quality but after 9 days of treating it was starting to cause other problems I think it had started to strip the protective mucus membrane covering some of the fish resulting in early stages of fungus or bacterial infections after carrying out 2 large water changes this has been resolved. Harry I appreciate your input but trust me water parameters are not an issue I've been doing this for 20 years and I have had water spec down for quite sometime I do not have a great deal of experience with parasites or diseases for that matter as I very rarely have a problem with either. Salt doesn't work on these beasties I've tried. Equally temp increases are an old wives tale all this does is increase the speed of the life cycle leaving the parasites open to the treatments more readily. I have tried raising the temperature on one of the rare occasions of an infestation before it did not eradicate the parasite at all just speeded up the life cycle and reduced the dissolved oxygen in the tank it did more harm than good. As far as do you use dechlorinator of course I do and as far as any fish being bullied no and if they were I would have dealt with it prior to any problems arising. The most aggressive fish I have is a Hero notatus and he is actually the one that shows most of the iritation. |
| 08-03-2006 11:41 by commissar |
allan try a product called rid-ich+ it works over time of about one week
the waterlife products dont even scratch this new strain the other way is to mix formal/mal green together to make your own meds but this is not recomended unless you know exactly what you are doing |
| 08-03-2006 15:00 by Alan |
I'm trying a formalin malachite green mix at the moment an off the shelf one though that details its composition clearly hopefully that will work. |
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