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Home      Reply		Viewed: 659 -- Replies: 23
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Posted	Flukes
05-04-2006 07:56 by Alan	I have a really big problem with gill and skin flukes in my freshwater tank. I have tried a number of remedies the latest being a mix of formalin and malachite green at a very high dose. I never seem to get all of them and those that remain are medication resistant. Have any of you on here had a similar problem if so how did you solve it? I'm going to try a straight malachite green remedy next at the highest safe dose then if that fails a copper based remedy and if this fails I will have to resort to an organo phosphate? These are the remedies I have tried: Octozin Sterazin Protozin Sera remedy (this is the malachite green formalin mix and achieved the best results) Salt I have also tried screaming at the little b******s all to no avail any ideas or experiences welcome. Danny boy I will have to hold off on the tilapia for the time being the parasite hasd come back with a vengeance. Before suggesting a UV don't bother these are only effective with smaller pathogens flukes are uneffected by UV unfortunately.
05-04-2006 08:13 by Alan	I'll probably give interpet no 7 a go next actually interpet remedies are quite well respected in the discus community so I expect they are pretty good.
05-04-2006 08:24 by yanton	have you thought about seeing your local vet, he may have a stronger cure than those 'off the shelf'
05-04-2006 08:54 by Alan	Most vets go blank when fish are mentioned! I will give it a go though I wouldn't be surprised if they refer to the same books that I would! I will give the interpet no 7 ago and then go from there have you had experience with parasites from hell like this before I have been pretty lucky in the time I have been fish keeping?
05-04-2006 11:08 by Linda Chenapa	Try Potasium Permagenate. We use this on our pond fish with good results. You need to remove the fish from the water to do this. We make up a small ammount, just mix it with water, get some tweezer, dip them into the mix and when you touch the flukes they withdraw their head from under the fishes skin, thereby enabling you to remove them without leaving the head behind to cause more problems.
05-04-2006 13:30 by Alan	These are small flukes I know some you can see you can only see these under a microscope evil little b*ggers. Potassium permanganate I have heard of being used as a treatment for the whole tank whilst fish are in it.
05-04-2006 14:16 by D.R.	Have you checked your dosage rates? These can be overlooked! Having worked in government fish disease labs (alongside vets) I wouldnt suggest going to a vet, they will charge vast amounts. Skin flukes - Gyrodactylus should respond to the 1st treatment with formalin & malachite green(FMG). Gill flukes - Dactylogyrus require subsequent treatments of FMG due to protective eg stages on the gills. Duration time of the egg stage depends on water temperature. Treatments on days 1,3 and 5 might resolve your problem, although a small water change between doses is advisable. I would only advise using Potassium permanganate as a dip treatment as it can strip filter bacteria Hope this does the trick D. Rodgers
05-04-2006 14:21 by Alan	Where do you get the potassium permangenate? Does anyone know of an off the shelf remedy that contains an organophosphate? Normally problems like this only arise with poor water conditions these evil little parasites are normally present on all fish in small numbers in fact a skin scrape would normally show 1 or 2 which is normal but something has happened in my tank that has caused this out break. I think I may also strip the tank down to its constituant parts and boil everything that. I will also tackle an iritating snail problem once and for all! I wouldn't be surprised if the snails are harbouring these we beasties but I do not think snails form part of their life cycle.
05-04-2006 20:31 by fisher	try some prazi pro if you can get some... PP is safer in permoxcyn.
05-04-2006 23:34 by 5757alan	Wormer Plus is supposed to work on gill flukes. Snails too. Whatever you are using are you repeating the dose. Most meds don't kill the eggs, so you need to repeat after 5 days or so
06-04-2006 08:22 by Linda Chenapa	'Where do you get the potassium permangenate? ' Some chemists stock it.
06-04-2006 09:24 by Alan	Whats Wormer plus? Equally what is Prazi pro never heard of them before. D Rodgers can you recommend any dosage levels I'm already going over board with a remedy at the moment.
06-04-2006 10:44 by D.R.	I have never used wormer plus or prazi pro. The koi market continually has new products emerging usually from U.S. or Japan. Here in the U.K. leglislation makes it more difficult to buy certain products over the counter thats when your local vet comes in but they do know how to charge ££. Useful suggestions from some of the others, but good old formalin/malachite should resolve the prob. I would stick to proprietary recommendations of dosage. DO NOT go above the norm dosage, malachite is taken up into the muscle of the fish and stays there for a longtime. Malachite green is a tri-phenyl amine (for all you chemists out there). It is potent stuff (carcinogenic) and now banned in all food fish aquaculture. It breaks down in U.V. light to its colourless derivative, therefore less effective. Japanese koi farmers treat their ponds at night. If you carefully add the FMG to your tank then it will not cause you any concern. You should also increase aeration in the tank during treatment and stop feeding. Remove any charcoal and try to syphon out any excess organic mulm from the tank. Flukes in low numbers will not kill the fish. I mentioned before that KMnO4 will strip filter bacteria, but prolonged use of most medications will upset the balance of filter bacteria sometimes it is better to stop treatment for a while, allow the fish/filter to recover from the stress of treatment. Perform a few water changes and then commence treatment 10-12 days later. D. Rodgers
06-04-2006 11:52 by Alan	Something has tipped the balance in my tank god knows what water qualty is spot on but I am aware that these flukes are normally present at a low level. I will persist with the FMG and then look at some other option when this fails.
06-04-2006 13:02 by D.R.	Has someone been able to identfy the flukes for you. A low powered microscope will be enough. Although their name - gill flukes suggests that they appear on the gills they can be found along the flank of the fish on the skin. The main difference being: gill flukes have four distinct eye spots whereas skin flukes do not. The eggs are usually attached to the gills by a filament, they can fall off. It would be worth checking the flow dynamics of your tank. Gavel tends to be a dead spot for circulation and may not receive as high a dose as the rest of the tank. nil desperandum!
06-04-2006 14:03 by Alan	Microscope and a scrape are the next step, I'm reluctant to oyk a fish out and take it to my local fish shop to do this, firstly as one of the affected fish is a large syno that is skitso at the best of times and the other fish affected are distichodus affinis permanently skitso everything else is relatively unaffected. Equally the remedies for these parasites are pretty much all the same. To complecate matters the syno in question is a hemisynodontis membranaceaus and they are plankton feedrs so it has always had the habit of moving into an area of fast flow and filter feeding it has always done this when being fed frozen foods its very odd it is sometimes difficult to tell with these if they are filter feeding or not! I have a sand substrate and turnover around 1800 litres per hour this is a 454 litre tank. It has good flow through out. Equally the water quality is very good.
06-04-2006 16:24 by D.R.	Sorry Alan, cant help you with behavioural traits of those fish as I never kept them. Be sure to get a confirmation of the parasites before any further treatment. Can anyone else out there comment on these fish.
06-04-2006 16:32 by wymcot	Alan - Interpet No 7 will most definately solve the problem, but dont make the same mistake as myself, it will totally desimate your bacteria.
07-04-2006 08:32 by Alan	I actually seem to be getting somewhere now breathing has eased on the handful of fish affected including the membranaceus that still does his plankton feeding weird fish. Interpet no 7 was on the list I didn't realise this treatment did filters in I will bare that in mind if I do ever use it in the future I must say in the past I was always impressed with the effectiveness of interpet remedies they are a b*gger to get hold of near me though I'm forced to go to some really grotty shops to get the stuff and I hate supporting bad shops. If the b*ggers return I will make sure I take a skin scrape and possiblys a gill scrape and get it analysed its just the thought of man handling a big and very strong syno does not appeal this fish has stung me before and it hurt like h*ll. I think the main problem is the stability of the remedy after about half an hour to an hour it destabalises and loses its effectiveness it perhaps would be better to set up a drip feed of the stuff to maintain a consistant level of the remedy but the effects on the fish may be different if this is done. Who knows!!!
07-04-2006 11:57 by 5757alan	If you check out the Sponsors via their Banner Ads you will find a number of these sell Wormer PLus. Prazi Pro is not legal in this country
07-04-2006 12:57 by D.R.	Good to hear of progress in your tank Alan, it just takes a bit of patience for gill flukes. Have you thought about a quarantine tank. If anyone out there buys new fish this weekend heres a tip for dealing with parasites. When I get the fish home I stabilise the water temp as normal. Then I remove fish from the bag with a net and place into a Potassium permanganate dip for 20 min. Then into a small quarantine tank with sponge filter. I observe the fish for any disease signs over 2-3weeks and treat accordingly. The fish are given minimal food during this. After quarantine I dip the fish again in another KMnO4 bath for 20min before introducing them into my main tank. It is a bit harsh on certain fish but my 6ft tank has been free from all parasites for several years since doing this, so it does save alot time and effort in the long run
07-04-2006 14:36 by Alan	Money and space are the problem for me I live in the over priced south east so I have a small house bills with stratospheric values and miniscule amounts of space if I ever earn enough money to set up a quarantine tank I will having said that I have said I would for over 10 years now. I am a fellow Official Secrets act signatory as yourself D.R. living and working in one of the most expensive places in the Country. I only stick with the job as I am doing something I believe is a noble cause that being the Environment.
10-04-2006 08:38 by D.R.	Doing the nation proud i am sure! Yeah involved in environment side of things now myself. To save costs I dont run my quar tank all the time, onlywhen I have new fish. I try to mature the tank with aquarium water etc The tank is only 2ft but i am sure your local club might dispose of some tanks for free.
11-04-2006 08:09 by Alan	Problem appears to have been sussed now was dosing twice a day with 30 mls of costapur everyday on a 100 gallon tank recommended dose is 12.5 mg every other day these flukes were tough.

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