Aquarist Classifieds Open Forum : looking to setup for the first time

Home Adverts Recent Added Auction Scam Alerts Fishkeeping Forum List Your Ad ShopAds Videos
Tropical Fish Aquariums & Equip Marine Fish & Marine Inverts Cichlids Malawi Tanganyikan Cichlids
Wanted Discus Goldfish, Koi & Ponds Retailers & Services ALL ADS By County

Home

Reply

Viewed: 547 -- Replies: 41

Posted	looking to setup for the first time
19-04-2006 18:53 by frozenball	Hello all . I am looking to set up my first marine tank . I did want to set up a fish and ref tank but alot of the shops i go to are putting me off saying no experiance , dont bother . So to start i will go for a fish only set up with hoping to set up the reef somtime afterwards . Im going to get a rio 400 any recomendations for extra equipment for this tank . Also any general suggestions would be a help . thanks mark ( my speeling and my gradma is aful im sorry )
19-04-2006 19:03 by drummerduck	Lose the red sea prism skimmer that comes with the Rio 400, also the internal filter can go as this just takes up loads of room, get an external filter like a Ehimes 2028.
19-04-2006 19:25 by frozenball	ok thanks but isnt that some of the benefits of a juwel tank
19-04-2006 19:36 by drummerduck	i'm not sure...? i have a Rio 400 and have thrown the skimmer and internal filter...
19-04-2006 22:49 by PAUL OWEN	Go for it man,don't let people hold you back,as long as you got time,money and you are enthusiastic/passionate about what you want,i'm having a go later as soon as i sort out my cloudy water learnin' curve!
19-04-2006 23:15 by michael hinson	as long as you are eager and willing to take all the advice and mix it together(you will rarely get the same advice from different reefers)also research into each aspect you an do anything,have fun enjoy it its a hobby so if its a chore your not enjoying it
19-04-2006 23:23 by Willuk	I jumped in at the deep end and got myself a reef set-up. I have found it to be no problem. Just keep ya water in tip top condition! It seems keeping marine set-ups is all about water management, get that right ya almost home!! As for the skimmer I have one and I found it a right bitch to handle on intial start-up, but once I got live stock in it has been fine. My tip is go reef but start with soft corals. BUT if you do you will also learn you cant always get the fish you dreamt about!!! As the buggers eat ya corals!!! Hence if ya go fish only the likely hood is you will have fish that are not reef safe so if you go reef later on you have two choices! Get rid of the fish that are not reef safe or set-up a second tank! I dont personally (and this is only personally) believe that its any easier to have fish only as appossed to reef and fish! You still have to watch the water very carefully in both cases!! You still do the same tests! Ok you have to feed the corals etc... but hey big deal!!! So agree with PAUL OWEN go for it dude!
20-04-2006 02:44 by frozenball	ok what sort of equipment will i have to buy for a rio considering the size of the tank for a reef set up. I do have the time and am very enthusiastic i have been waiting around ten years , for our little one to grow up before we set one up and her indoors has finally given the nod
20-04-2006 10:12 by Alan	Keep it simple to start with you say you want to start with fish and then upgrade the tank to a reef. This means all the fish you start with must be reef safe and in addition you must never use any copper treatments on the tank. If you get a whitespot out break drop the salinity to 1.014-1.017 for about 6 weeks that should get shot of it but you must persist for the duration of the 6 weeks to avoid the white spot returning as marine white spot can lay dorment for a long time in a tank. As far as equipment it all depends if you are on a tight budget. Personally I would go for at least 50 kilos of live rock this will handle all of the biological filtration. 2 large tunze or seio pumps to turnover at least 20 times the total tank volume of water every hour go for a theoretical maximum with these pumps of 35 times per hour this will account for any loss of performance over time. Skimmer wise I would go for an external hang on skimmer deltec would do the job don't bother with a prizm waste of money. As far as the jewel filter goes I would put rowaphos in it and nothing else. This must not become biologically active the live rock should do all the biological filtration. Also don't bother with a hydrometer just spend the extra on a refractometer. You will also need an RO unit and then there is the lighting I would go for 2 150 watt metal halides and 2 blue actinic T5's or T8's. If you want to try SPS go for 250 watt metal halides. If you can accomodate a sump under the tank (this isn't easy with juwels) I would put a skimmer in the sump and I would actually put 3 or 4 airdriven skimmers in instead of the venturi type the airdriven require less maintenance and are cheap and don't strip out beneficial organisms to the extent of some other skimmers. As far as I recall the rio has 2 cupboards within the cabinet so you could do one sump with all the technical gubbins and put a miracle mud filter in the other. I wouldn't suggest having the tank drilled but the use of a couple of over flow boxes shouldn't be a problem on the rio as I do not thing they have a very wide bracing bar. If you do all this there is no reason why you can't jump straight in to keeping softies.
20-04-2006 12:35 by frozenball	thanks for info will do some reading on some of the items you have mentioned , The cabinet is not a problem as i can modifie this as i am a chippy
20-04-2006 12:42 by drummerduck	FrozenBall do you live in london????? i would like mine modified if its possible!!??
20-04-2006 12:42 by drummerduck	I have a rio 400 and there really is no room for a sump!!?? I know you know your stuff Alan but i looked into this... unless i was really badly advised? If this is right please can you tell me how to do this as i really wanted the overflow box sytem..... just could not get a sump to fit into the small space that is left on the rio 400 stands. cheers, DD
20-04-2006 13:34 by samantha	best tip i can offer is to get as much good live rock as you can afford, then some more. have some coral gravel as the substrate. a 2 inch depth is perfect. this helps in stabilising the water and some nitrate handling. let the tank settle with the living rock and strong lighting for a few weeks. then wait until the water smells sweet. if you get good rock, by this time, you can see some life poking out of the rock. you can then get your first inverts, try some easy to care for polys, feathers and mushroom corals. later, get some sponges (one of your best friends as they are natural water purifiers). if you decide to stock low, a skimmer is not absolutely requied, although preferable. change 10% of the water without fail each week. if everything looks rosy, you can start to introduce some fish. if possible, have a small spare tank running with a filter. then you can watch new arrivals before adding to the main aquarium. this is because if you get white spot or velevet in the tank, you are in a corner - as with inverts you can use no copper medication at all. this is the recipe i use with great success. others will have similiar or different suggestions - this is what works for me. personaly i prefer the fluval fx5 external filter.
20-04-2006 15:03 by Alan	I'll be honest it is a while since I last looked at a rio 400 and the cabinet. There is no off the shelf solution to the sump predicament with juwel tanks, the only way to do it is have a sump tank specially made to fit inside the cabinet, this is possible I no the size would no be great but it does get a lot of equipment out of the main tank and gives a home for the skimmer(s). As far as an over flow box take a look on the www.stm-shop.co.uk site and have a look for the schuran over flow box. If going for a miracle mud style filter in one side there would need to be 2 weirs one for the inflow over bio balls or something similar the other to over flow in to the return pump section the idea being that the level in the sump remains constant. If the space is tall and narrow perhaps a DSB may be a better option than an algae scrubber. I would agree with samantha's suggestion of having a small additional tank running if I had the funds and space available I would do the same as it would mitigate the problem I am now facing with ich in a reef tank (joy upon joy!). I would say though that all new fish should be quarantined for at least 2 weeks and the tank should have a maintained level of copper in it to insure any parasites are killed fairly quickly. I would also advocate plenty of food whilst in the quarantine period so a skimmer should be considered a must depending on the size of the quarantine tank an air driven skimmer would be more than adequate, make sure there are places for the fish to hide though as they could become quite stressed I would also advocate some lighting to give a sensible lunar cycle otherwise when fish are introduced to the main tank the lights may cause stress. Do not skimp on aclimatising though when moving fish from the quarantine to the main tank set up a drip loop in to a bucket with the fish in it and then net the fish into the main tank to avoid inadvertently putting copper into the reef.
25-04-2006 22:37 by frozenball	hi all ok i got my tank . I got a rio 400 second hand for next to nothing compared to the new price . The internal filter i have a desire to rip out and replace it with an Eheim External Filter 2028 , is this a good idea ? and i was going to go for a v2skim 800 for a skimmer ( i will have to alter the hood ) must go slow so i dont get lost . thanks
25-04-2006 22:38 by frozenball	oh yea , before i forget does around 40kg of live rock sound good
26-04-2006 08:50 by Alan	Rio 400 is 400 litres isn't it? Not sure cant remeber anyway you need at least 1 kilo of live rock for every 2 imp gallons of water. I have one other suggestion as I have learned the hard way as I'm a stubborn mule. Set up a quarantine tank. Initially I would set the tank up and stock with all the inverts you want first and then leave the tank with no new additions for at least 2 months before adding any fish. This will insure all fish parasites are dead and you reef will be parasite free. This is well worth doing as treating parasites in a reef is virtually impossible. Then before adding any fish to the tank they should be quarantined and I would suggest treating them with a parasite medication before they are moved to the reef they should be disease free for at least 2 weeks before they are added to the reef. Keep the water parameters in the quarantine tank the same as those in the reef that will minimise stress when fish are moved into the reef from quarantine make sure no water is transfered from the quarantine tank into the reef as it will contain chemicals lethal to inverts. With the live rock you really do not need any other filtration although the external could be used as a chemical filter containing a phosphate remover but it must not become biologically active the live rock will take care of everything else.
26-04-2006 18:31 by yanton	frozenball, keeping a marine system is very easy. the key is loads of live rock, good filtration, strong lighting for the benefit of the rock and inverts, and away you go.
27-04-2006 08:10 by Alan	Scrub the hypo salinity thing I mentioned for treating ich I have tried it, it works but inverts will suffer big time at least I will have space for loads of new corals!!!!
27-04-2006 14:44 by frozenball	ok i have started buying some stuff for the tank now this is what im going for. Over tank t5 lighting 3 lamps 35w each 40kg of live rock hagen fluval tronic 300w heater eheim external 2028 filter with spray bar kit and still undecided with the skimmer yet as i would like one that isnt tank mounted the plan is to cycle the tank for 6 - 8 weeks droping a bit of flake in from time to time then is all is well adding some turbo snails cleaning shrips and two clowns then i will be setting a quarantine tank does this sound ok
28-04-2006 08:14 by Alan	Quarantine all the fish even the clowns. Skimmer wise if you don't have a sump you can either go for an internal airdriven skimmer or a hang on skimmer the only hang on worth bothering with is a deltec and I think TMC's V2skim has a hang on variant. Don't bother with prizm's or scumsuckers as made by d&d marine. The advantage of an internal is they are dirt cheap dead easy to set up saving loads of dosh for live stock equally as they are slightly less efficient than the new skimmers such as the deltec they don't strip out so many beneficial organisms.
29-04-2006 00:07 by frozenball	sorry for being ignorant but why quarntine them befor adding to an empty tank alan ?
29-04-2006 07:17 by yanton	because once you get whitespot in your system - you have problems
02-05-2006 08:05 by Alan	If the clowns bring ich or any parasite into the reef it will be impossible to treat if however you quarantine all fish including the first ones you can gaurantee your reef will be ich free providing it is left fishless for at least 6 weeks. I have ich in my system and I had to dismantle the whole tank to catch all the fish 60 kilos of rock all of which had to come out. Took all day learn from my mistake and quarantine everything.
02-05-2006 23:40 by frozenball	alan thanks for info but i do intend to add the reef after the fish , around a year after the last fish goes in is this a bad idea or am i ok doing this . Also the set up has slightly changed again 1 juwel rio 1 internal filter (standard rio) 1 external eheim 2229 filter 1 25w uv 1 twin interpet 55w t5 ligthting 1 juwel standard lighting 1 water softner ( come with tank made by purity on water,but i need to replace the filters ) to fill and top up but i am still undesided on the bloddy skimmer i have been reading some good reveiws on the deltec mc500 internal skimmer (i dont have a problem with internal skimmers) also if you treat the water will it kill the live rock ?
03-05-2006 09:00 by Alan	If your on a budget you could always put a couple of airdriven skimmer in there the lees medium size is rated to 60 gallons 2 of them will do the job and cost you the right side of £50 then all you need is an air pump saving you loads of dosh for more stock just a thought. Deltec is very good though and there is also the deltec hang on that is very good. Are you intending to use live rock in the tank? If so I would consider the tank a reef from the word go due to the variety of life that will be on the rock if you use a remedy you will never be able to use that rock in a reef and the life on it will in all likely hood be killed with only the bacteria living in the rock surviving. If you want this tank to be a reef you need to treat it as such from the beginning. I learned the hardway about leaching when I attempted to keep freshwater rays sadly I lost them due to a remedy I have used in the past leaching out of the decor and filter media I will never be able to keep rays in this set up due to this remedy. This is what I would do since my recent foray into reef safe! remedies. Set up the main tank using live rock as the filter medium to a level of at least 1 kilo per imp gallon of water the tank will hold when empty 400 litres this equates to 88.1 gallons so say 90 gallons so I would put 45 kilos of live rock in there. I would use live rock from www.stm-shop.co.uk 35 kilos of premium grade and the rest ultra grade to go on top. I would also add 2 large seio pumps to circulate at least 12,000 litres per hour possibly more. The 2 skimmers would be in opposite back corners as would the 2 circulation pumps. I would upgrade the juwel standard lighting with marine standard tubes this with the T5's should be sufficient for softies and polyp colonies as well as mushroom colonies. No corals would be added at this stage though. To this tank I would add a maxi jet power head and put a sponge on it and let the sponge become biologically active.(I'll come back to this). I would also rig up the eheim but put a phosphate remover in it instead of any other type of media as this must not become biologically active. At the same time I would rig up the UV sterilizer in line with the eheim. I would leave the tank like this for 2 months possibly adding a few corals or polyp colonies giving the tank time to settle and inhabitants of the live rock to take hold after a week I would start adding grazer to the set up either snails or hermits I have found mixing the 2 problematic as the hermits tend to eat the snails. The advantage of hermits is their detritus munching habits as well as the algae eating. Be sure to supplement their diet though in the begining feeding seaweed (the stuff they use to wrap sushi in costs about 89p a packet instead of paying a shop a fiver for something that is identical just in a fancy packet). Having said that snails come in many shapes and sizes and have a large variety of habits if you were to consider the use of a DSB in the main tank I would scrap any notion of hermits and use snails instead large quantities of nassarius cerith as well as turbos the nassarius and cerith will turn the DSB over proventing clumping and give the DSB time to become colonised by worms and other micro organisms. If this is your first foray into marine though I would not go for a DSB they need very careful monitoring in the early days and the choice of sand grain size is critical. With the tank establishing I would now look to setting up the quarantine tank this does need to be massive depending on how many fish you want to put in the main tank in one go. If you wanted to add a group of anthias your quarantine tank would need to be large enough to house all the anthias comfortably. This is where the sponge that was on the maxijet in the main tank comes in, whilst the main tank was being established the sponge on the maxijet was also becoming biologically active. Once the quarantine tank is full of salt water and at the right temp with a maxi jet pump in it all you will need to do to establish the quarantine tank is move the filter sponge from the main tank to the quarantine tank (DO NOT WASH IT) this will be the filter for the quarantine tank and it will be totally matured. Equally it is likely to have a fairly generous covering of algae which will be beneficial to any tangs or angels in quarantine. For those fish in quarantine they shpould be treated as though they are infected with a parasite using a non reef safe remedy. As it is a quarantine tank a 50% of the recommended dose should be sufficient as the decor will be sparse and the level of absorbtion with the decor will be minimal. Fish should stay in quarantine for at least 2 weeks in perfect health. Personally I would scrap the internal filter of the rio its not needed. The main tank will be fishless for 2 months but in that time inverts can be added taking care to only buy stock from tanks with either no fish in them and certainly no diseased fish. Inverts to consider: Soft corals Peppermint shrimp the true ones as sold by stm (just in case aiptasia has crept in on the live rock) Cleaner shrimp Sea urchin Blue linkia small red starfish (be sure that you only buy the reef safe one there are a few about that get huge and are predators as opposed to detritovores. brittle stars great scavenger. You will need to feed the main tank every so often as I stated above with the hermits with seaweed. In addition with shrimps and the like in there feed brine shrimp every 2 to 3 days this will keep the shrimps happy and also offer lance fish to the brittle stars obviously of an appropriate size for the brittle stars. As far as introducing the inverts spend at least 2 hours aclimatising them by either the use of a drip loop or half a tumbler of tank water every ten to 15 minutes being added to the bag, also try to avoid adding fish shop water to your tank. As far as introducing the quarantined fish to the main tank use a bucket and a drip loop to aclimatise them to the water of the main tank it is vital that none of the water in the quarantine tank enters the main tank so when it is time to transfer the quarantined fish to the main tank net them out of the bucket in to the main tank. To reduce the likelihood of osmotic shock further keep the quarantine tank at the same sg as the main tank and also use a refractomer to measure salinity hydrometers are a waste of money.
03-05-2006 09:01 by Alan	I've probably missed something but my fingers are hurting now.
03-05-2006 09:03 by Alan	Go for an sg of 1.026-1.027 this is the levels of the sea and also will aid buffering and also calcium levels.
03-05-2006 10:02 by frozenball	wow thanks my eyes are hurting , that give me alot to think about , So if i used the main tank as a quarntine with the first fish i could kill of the benifital stuff on the living rock for the corals . I will have to look for a juwel record 70 for a quarntine and set it up around the same time as the main tank . I dp have a fluval 204 i may run that on the main tank during set up just to mature it.
03-05-2006 11:39 by Alan	Thats a good idea with the fluval 204 run this instead of the maxi jet I suggested then you can transfer it all over to the quarantine tank when needed one thing to note though that I forgot to mention once the fluval is on the quarantine tank you will never be able to use the media in it on the main tank again absolutely never! Equally if you were to put the 204 back on the main tank you wpould have to scrub it inside and out including the pipe work. The advantage of my suggestion with the 2 maxi jet pumps and a sponge is that once you move the sponge to the quarantine tank you put a brand new sponge on the maxi jet in the tank you are then maturing in effect a new filter for the quarantine tank. When the fish have been quarantined you can discard the sponge that you put in the quarantine tank giving no risk of contaminants hitting the main tank. Its much cheaper to chuck out a sponge that it is to chuck out a canister full of media. The rule of thumb is this no equipment should be moved from the quarantine to main display that includes decor and filter media. The only thing that should come from quarantine to the main display is the fish absolutely nothing else. As far as what goes from the main to the quarantine anything providing it is not an invert as the quarantine set up will be lethal to inverts and everything in it could potentially kill and invert. I hope that makes sense, whilst I agree the fluval 204 would be a good proposition for a quarantine tank it could also be an expensive one and a more risky one as you would be moving the equipment from the main tank on to the quarantine and back again there is the risk of pathogen transfer as well as copper contamination of the main display. As far as maturing the smaller tank if you do as I have suggested there will be no maturation required as the filter will have been matured in the main tank. I hope this is making sense.
03-05-2006 11:52 by Alan	I get the feeling you have kept freshwater before but not marine as you have a fixation on externals am I right? First thing with marine is forget everything you learned keeping freshwater, with freshwater the only option is to get rid of ammonia and nitrite canisters and trickle filters are fantastic for this but there is no effective way of removing nitrate perhaps because in nature rivers for example don't need to break nitrate down as water is constantly being changed. However marine is different there is no means of dilution within the marine environment therefore organisms have adapted to live on all nitrogenous waste, there is of course the dilution factor too as the sea is so *** big but with marine it is possible quite easily to completely cycle nitrogenous waste even breaking down nitrate, live rock can do this given the right conditions, in some cases live rock is to porous and only goes as far as breaking down ammonia and nitrite in these situation a DSB or a miracle mud filter can be added to remove the nitrate the main thing is though external biological filters and trickle filters are not the best option for a reef as they will result in a rapid nitrate build up pure live rock systems will not do this normally and eco system tanks certainly won't take a look at nemo's recent post about his tank 8 weeks no water change and nitrate of 2.5 ppm at this level it actually acts as a kind of fertilizer for corals promoting the beneficial symbiotic algae I have heard of people having nitrates that are undetectable and that they are adding nitrates to boost coral growth. I expect you have read many books I would suggest you get a copy of practical fishkeeping and have a read about a readers reef some of these tanks are amazing and they all have live rock in common. Many include DSB's or miracle mud filters some include both as well as the high tech gadgetry of calcium reactors and the like.
03-05-2006 13:29 by frozenball	thanks for info again firstly i have never kept fish ( indoors ) i did however have a 14 x 8 x 6ft koi pond with a few selected breading koi in it but we moved homes and i had no way of transporting the pond tee hee hee . Yes i have been reading articles on marines for ages (this is why i am cofussing myself) and also have started buying the practicle fish keeping mag . I was going to put a sand bed filter in the tank with hagen slabs and two hagen power heads either corner ( the type of slabs were the one you cut to the size of your tank so you dont get dead spots ) but have been advised against it by a few people now saying that they are a pain in the butt to keep . Is this bad advice because if it is i will go back to the sand bed filter in the bottom of the tank and this will also meen a couple of extra power heads in the tank which is all good . I have no fixation on external filters the fluval was part of the deal with the tank i bough but is to small (recommended 200 l tanks) for the main tank so i will never use it on the main tank i will only use it for quarntine ( i going to be running a quarntine for approx 1 year as this is how long it will take to stock the tank) The problem with myself is that i have no wish to drill the tank or run a sump as i have very small kiddies running around the house and must try to keep all of the equipment hidden from them . The juwel internal filter what i was going to do with that was on the outlet put a defuser on it just to put some more air in the tank ans also its another filter turning over water in the tank which isnt a bad idea is it ? I dont really have a budget for the tank as i work a good job and get payed good money apart from the fact that i am welsh and tight to go with it. thanks for all of you help you are being most helpful
03-05-2006 14:21 by Alan	By sand bed filter what do you mean? Do you mean an under gravel filter? If so don't do it, it wiould be an absolute nightmare very bad idea for a tank that would ultimately be a reef. When I say DSB I mean deep sand bed this must not be confussed with an undergravel filter it is completely different and must be at least 4 inches deep. Most people put these in a sump but some have them in the main tank and they are very effective but they require extensive planning and carefull stocking, no hermits in a tank like this as you will need loads of burrowing snails cerith and nassarius also the live rock would need to go in before the substrate as you will need to cover at least 4 inches worth of the live rock with the substrate this will seed the DSB and also give a very strong foundation for your rock work. If you want to do a DSB go on the www.reef-eden.co.uk website there is a very good article on DSB's there. If you don't want the DSB you have a number of options either bare bottom if you are going to do this I would suggest constructing a rack using egg crate (this is basically an acrylic ventilation panel as used in suspended ceilings C&A plastics sell them). Or a spinkling of aragonite sand to a max depth of about 1 inch and the live rock placed straight on top. Circulation pumps are vital in any marine tank with live rock the turn over should be at least 20 times per hour I know of one tank with a turn over of about 48 times per hour. As far as the juwel filter don't put a diffuser on it bubbles in the water are bad for corals and sponges. The skimmer will drive off any unwanted CO2. Take a look at www.paraquatics.com or .co.uk can't remember which and look at customer tanks that will give you some ideas. Not sure what more I can say really one thing that springs to mind though is patience don't rush anything I guarantee you will be tempted it normally results in disaster though.
03-05-2006 23:54 by frozenball	lol quite correct about the rushing bit (i ve had my tank just sat there empty for the last week ) but i will never give in to temptation . yes i was talking about a under gravel system w3asnt queit sure what a dsb was thought they were the same ( every day is a school day) after reading about them , maybee in a couple of years when i have a bit more experiance . I was going to use either fine or medium coral sand for the base of the tank about the same amount as you quoted . im glad you said aout the diffuser on it because this i was also going to do . When you say circlation pumps what do you meen . I do have a wave maker socket set and i just need to get 3 power heads to stick to the tanks to run it but i am unsure of what power heads to get for this purpose. do you have any advice on good test kit for a newbi because i understand that some are just utter rubbish
04-05-2006 09:01 by Alan	Test kit wise go for salifert or seachem. Circulation pumps take a look at tunze turbelle and seio pumps seio are cheaper and can be rigged up to work in many ways.
04-05-2006 12:50 by frozenball	ok local shop stocks the salifert ones so i will buy one of those , you mentioned eirlier about haveing a turn over of 12000 l per hr does that i can use two at 600 or do they both have to be 12000 also the eheim filter has a wave function as it is a wet and dry bio filter . also i have large grain coral sand is this ok to use on the bottom of the tank to take the rock i have some ocean and tuffa rock for the base should i set up the tank before ordering the live rock and then add it after or shouls i wait and put it in before. I was planning on adding the salt and leaving the water stand for a day before turning everything on thanks again for you help and sorry to be a pain mark
04-05-2006 14:58 by Alan	I had another thought do you have an RO unit if not take a look at www.ro-man.com vital bit of kit on a marine tank. I would avoid using tufa and ocean rock just stick live rock in there. As far as initial setting up you csan use the tank to mix the initial salt water for the tank but in the future mixing will have to be done away from the tank. Best way to do this is buy 2 large identical containers a lot of people use the sort of water tak you would get in your loft I just use a couple of ten gallon buckets from a garden centre. When carrying out water changes it is imported the amount of water you put in is equal to the amount of water you remove otherwise it is possible to cause a gradual change in salinity of the tank which isn't good. What you do is fill one bucket with RO and add the salt and I use an eheim pump to mix the salt water in the bucket once the bucket is full and mixed I check the salinity is right I go for between 1.026 and 1.027 sg. When this is done fill the other bucket with water from the tank and then replace it with water from the freshly mixed container this way you always remove and replace exactly the same amount I normally use a hose to siphon the water out to the bucket in the garden close to a drain. In total I would aim to turnover the total volume of water around 30 times per hour so that is 400 * 30 so 12,000 litre per hour in total for all of the pumps I would go for 2 pumps capable of at least 6,000 litres per hour. How large is this large grain coral sand? sand implies sand so a little over sugar grain size if so this would be fine if however it is more like a coral gravel then I wouldn't use it as it will trap detritus to effectively and the grain size will inhibit the movement of beneficial organisms resulting in the bed going dead this can happen at even an inches depth. What I would do when first setting up is fill the tank to the 80% mark with nothing in it aside from the power heads at this point I would also get the heaters and all equipment in and working you won't be able to check the skimmer though as the tank will need to be full to test the skimmer but everything else you can get going. Once the RO water is in the tank to the 80% full mark I would add the required salt to get the salinity to 1.026-1.027 measure this with a refractometer. Once all the salt has disolved I would add a live sand substrate instead of the coral sand you have live araganite sand is a good bet and fill the tank to a depth of 1 inch leave it for a day after this just to settle with all the pumps running no need for the lights to go on at this stage. The next day I would add at least 20 kilos of live rock if not all the live rock you intend to put in the system this being about 45 kilos but 40 kilos would be enough. Get the best liverock you can find I would recommend www.stm-shop.co.uk as I said above make sure you get cured live rock go for the premium and if you can stretch to it make 10 kilos of it the ultimate grade live rock to top off the rock work. Once all this is in I expect your tank may be full if not mix the necessary amount of salt water in one of the containers and add it to the tank do not mix the top up water in the tank. At this stage you should be able to put the skimmer on I expect you will get a fair bit of muck from the system actually to save a bit of dosh and reduce the muck level don't use live sand just get aragonite sand and clean it thoroughly before use this will reduce the amount of waste you are starting with. At this point get the lights on a twelve hour cycle. Leave it for a week fine tune anything that needs it providing everything is okay you may be lucky and avoid the usual algae stages I gave one of my Dads work colleagues similar advice to this and he bypassed all the irritating maturing phases. After a week assuming everything is looking good you can start adding grazers as I listed above. You mentioned you have a wave maker further up this thread if that means that the 2 pumps are not going to be on at the same time get pumps that are twice as powerful that way you will still maintain the hourly turnover of 30 times the tank volume.
04-05-2006 15:06 by Alan	sorry for the occasionally misplaced word I tend to type as I think and I don't type as fast as I think so I can get ahead of myself.
04-05-2006 16:36 by frozenball	wont use the coral gravel then , thought not .its in 3-5 mm bits on average. Thanks again for info if you dont mind me asking why not tuffa and ocean rock ?
04-05-2006 17:04 by frozenball	i havent got a ro unit but i do have a purity on tap 2 canister unit
05-05-2006 08:16 by Alan	Ocean rock just takes up valuble water volume and tuffa I have heard can dump nitrates into the tank prosumably its porosity is such that inside it does not become anaerobic and therefore will allow for the breakdown of ammonia and nitrite effectively but not nitrate. Live rock in my personal opinion is the only decor for a marine tank anything else is just an obstacle. The purity on tap 2 canister unit may just be a chlorine remover of sorts but I don't really know you are much better off going for a multistage RO unit such as the 6 stage 100 gpd unit ro man sell this will get the total dissolved solids or TDS down to nearly 0 which is what you want for a marine tank when mixing the salt water also use an enriched salt such as reef crystals or TMC's pro reef salt.
05-05-2006 11:42 by frozenball	yes i was going to go for reef salt . Thanks for all of your advice

NEW REPLIES ARE NOW CLOSED ON THIS FORUM

We invite you to join the NEW Aquarist Classifieds Fishkeeping Forum HERE

Your contributions to this forum are greatly appreciated.
This forum will be retained in archive status for reference.

Enquire About Sponsorship
Enquire About Banners

Admin Ref: Aquarist Fishkeeping Forum > looking to setup for the first time