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Home      Reply		Viewed: 503 -- Replies: 37
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Posted	Cloudy Eyes
06-05-2006 17:40 by Michael C	I have recently treated my marines for white spot ( which appears to have gone ) and now one fish appears the be getting cloudy eyes, Is this caued by the white sport or parasites? I appears to be white patches on the eyes which makes me think parasites ? HELP ?
06-05-2006 17:51 by trickatech	Investigate if water quality is high first (water changes), then if nutritional needs of that species are being met. Wait at least a week or two before trying any antibiotics, it will often clear on its own if water quality is high. Frequent water changes a must to improve quality. Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Cloudy eye is a sign of a number of things, rather than a disease in its own right
06-05-2006 17:52 by trickatech	pathogen or potential cause is.... Various organisms (nonspecific), Severe Stress, Malnutrition, Cataracts, Old Age, Hyperproduction of slime due to poisoning, bad water quality, or irritation
06-05-2006 17:58 by Michael C	the fish does seem to be irratated flicking and scratching ? Has anybody ever had eye parasites on marine angels ?
06-05-2006 18:03 by trickatech	Before you can decide on a treatment, you need to be fairly certain what is the infectious agent of the fish. Some of the signs of infection with Cryptocaryon irritans are rubbing or scratching against decorations or substrate (this behavior is also known as glancing or flashing), breathing problems, an increased mucous layer, loss of appetite, abnormal swimming behavior, frayed fins, cloudy eyes, and, of course, the telltale white spots. These characteristic spots are usually described as appearing like small grains of salt stuck to the body of the fish. Even in the presence of all of these external signs, the best diagnostic tool is microscopic examination of fresh fin or gill clippings or skin scrapings. But, realistically, an extremely small number of us are ever going to perform this kind of differential diagnosis, myself included. This disease is usually associated with several environmental triggers. Changes in water temperature, exposure to high levels of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, low pH levels, low dissolved oxygen, and overcrowding are all factors contributing to the onset of the disease. You could lump all of these in a general category of stress, but I find it more appropriate to think of all of these as wholly unnatural conditions. In fact, Cryptocaryon irritans is rare in the wild, and even more unlikely to be lethal
06-05-2006 18:08 by trickatech	The lifecycle of the parasite is interesting and important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish. After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again Many hobbyists are fooled into believing they have cured their fish of the parasites, only to find Ich present again on fish a few weeks later; a reason why following through with a full treatment protocol is so important. Don't make this mistake and be lulled into a false sense of security. The parasites may be in a stage where they are merely regrouping and multiplying for their "next offensive." In the wild, this sort of massive reproductive phase ensures that a few will find a suitable host to continue on the cycle. In the close confines of our aquariums, though, it means comparatively massive infection rates.
06-05-2006 18:09 by trickatech	It is my strong preference and my general recommendation to never add any medications to a display tank. In my experience, it is always better to remove all the affected fish to a separate quarantine/hospital tank for treatment. This ensures that none of the display tank's other inhabitants such as corals, bacteria, worms, amphipods, copepods, or mysid shrimp are affected. Also, if you keep the fish in quarantine for one month without infection, you can be sure that any Ich parasites and their eggs have hatched and died without a host. Note that Cryptocaryon irritans requires a fish host. They cannot complete their life cycle with the rock, sand, or any invertebrates.
06-05-2006 18:12 by Michael C	the fish is eatng well just scrating and rubbing on the decor. I have suffered from eye parasites before and packed up to now start again and have them once again. I may pack up for good now ?
06-05-2006 18:13 by trickatech	Treatment Option 1 - Copper Copper is probably the most popular method of treating Cryptocaryon irritans, but is not my first choice. It is far too labor intensive for me to recommend to the general public, has a large risk of overdose, lowers the fish's resistance to other diseases, and can cause serious damage to the kidney, liver, and beneficial intestinal flora of the fish being treated. Damage to intestinal flora is what many hobbyists point to as a possible contributing cause for Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE), although there is currently no definitive cause of HLLE.
06-05-2006 18:14 by trickatech	Treatment Option 2 - Formalin: Formalin can be administered one of two ways; either in short dips with saltwater or used continually in a hospital tank. The dosage for the continuous use is 1 ml of the 37% stock solution for every 25 gallons of quarantine tank water (Bassleer, 1996). I prefer the formalin dip to continuous use because formalin is a fairly toxic compound. Also, with no commercially available test kits to monitor the concentration, it would be difficult to dose an entire tank and account for evaporation, absorption, etc. To prepare the dip, I take 5 gallons of tank water and add to it 3.75 ml of 37% formalin. I also aerate the water vigorously to ensure there is maximum dissolved oxygen. The dip should last 30 to 60 minutes. As when using any medication, it is best to monitor the fish's reaction and be prepared to act if it appears in distress. When the dip is complete, net the fish, place it back into the hospital tank, and discard the dip water. This protocol should be repeated every other day for two weeks.
06-05-2006 18:15 by trickatech	Treatment Option 4 - Hyposalinity: Low salinity has been demonstrated to be an effective treatment against Cryptocaryon irritans (Noga, 2000). A salt level of 16 ppt or approximately 1.009-1.010 specific gravity at 78-80*F for 14 days was reported to kill the parasite. I have never experienced problems when placing fish into a hyposalinity treatment, but have routinely witnessed fish showing obvious signs of distress when brought back to normal salinity levels too quickly. For that reason, I try to limit the specific gravity increase 0.001-0.002 points per day.
06-05-2006 18:16 by Michael C	Thanks for that info, i dont have a quarintine tank so what can i do ?
06-05-2006 18:16 by trickatech	Treatment Option 5 - Daily Water Changes this is probably the most feasable option It is safe and effective for all marine fish (Colorni, 1985) and is my preferred first course of action. Fish are put into a quarantine/hospital tank and then everyday for two weeks the tank is completely cleaned and a 50% water change is performed. While the size of this water change may concern some aquarists who are not accustomed to water changes of this magnitude, as long as you are careful about matching the temperature and salinity, you should not experience any problems. This method helps to remove the tomites, tomonts, and theronts from the tank and lessens the chance of reinfection. The fish should remain in quarantine for an additional month to ensure the treatment has worked and to allow them time to gain strength. This method is best used as a preventative when a fish is first acquired. It is also useful for mild infestations or when other more aggressive treatments cannot be used due to species sensitivity. The best thing about this kind of treatment is it is safe for all fishes and invertebrates. One of the other benefits is the daily water changes should help you maintain optimum water quality and therefore should stimulate the fish's immune system to combat any secondary bacterial infections that might be attacking the vulnerable areas where the Cryptocaryon irritans parasites have burrowed into the skin. This is in contrast to copper or Formalin, which are both immunosuppressive, and may actually promote secondary infection.
06-05-2006 18:18 by trickatech	th e other option is to take the fish and dispatch it. but even then you run the risk that part of the parasite has left the fish and already is active in your tank. if this si the case it could be serious problems im afraid
06-05-2006 18:19 by Michael C	Thanks again, should i empty the tank of fish and leave it for at least 28 days ( to ensure all die ? ) or empty the tank completely and start a fresh (once again ) or give up ?
06-05-2006 18:21 by trickatech	what do you have in the tank at present? how many are suffering from illness?
06-05-2006 18:25 by Michael C	In the kitchen, the Queen angel is the only one suffering with the eyes ( it was angels before that suffered with eye parasites) and the cleaner wrass is flashing
06-05-2006 18:29 by trickatech	if you are to empty the tank what are you going to do with the surviving fish>?
06-05-2006 18:32 by Michael C	I don't know i wish i knew somebody who would be willing to put them in quaranteen for a month, or i could buy a cheap setup for quarnteen. I wish i could meet you trickatech you seem really knowledgeable
06-05-2006 18:35 by trickatech	where are you michael?
06-05-2006 18:36 by Michael C	chesterfield in Derbyshire, i bet your miles away ?
06-05-2006 18:49 by trickatech	i live in lichfield which is not that far but all my tanks are full at present. if you went somewhere like the hollybush you could purchase a very small tank for around £9 this would be suitable for a temporary quarantine tank but then the issue still lingers thatpart of the bacteria may have already left the fish and be re grouping in the tank ready to strike again
06-05-2006 18:54 by Michael C	OK i may beable to lend a rio 125, how long should i keep the fish from my main tank and what should i treat with in the rio ?
06-05-2006 18:58 by trickatech	if i was you i woul suggest treatment 5 above its the most simple and cost affective.But also keep a close eye on other fish. any signs of the same illness put the in quarantine aswell
06-05-2006 19:01 by trickatech	hey michael ive got to go now have finished work. i will be online later or you can email me rossdixon@hotmail.com if i can be any further help
06-05-2006 19:13 by Michael C	Tried to email you dont know if it worked ? So for Treatment 5 i need to put all fish in quaranteen ( or do i ) and do 50% water changes each day for two weeks ?
06-05-2006 19:36 by michael hinson	michael are you the one who gave me and my mate your diseased fish(wiping out my mates tank) saying you were giving up just got no time?THANKS!
06-05-2006 22:40 by wbrady	Yes it is check for velvet, all the fish got it a week after introducing your fish..cheers
06-05-2006 23:31 by michael hinson	WHY????!!!!
07-05-2006 00:18 by Michael C	What are you taking about ?
07-05-2006 00:29 by Michael C	The fish in question ( above ) are my old man's fish, the fish that you collected were fine and if there was any problem with them i wouldn't of passed them on to your mate he was a lovely bloke and i wouldn't do that to anyone. My tank has been sold and is in the process of being dismantled
07-05-2006 07:05 by trickatech	so what do you have in your tank at preent then michael c? including any rock
07-05-2006 10:17 by Michael C	Only the rock, which is sold with the tank ? Why ?
07-05-2006 10:26 by trickatech	because if yo begin with the water change with live rock there is a chance that you could damage that aswell. you really could do with a seperate tank to quarantine. do the other fish look ok? if so quarantine the ill fish and then do a 50% water change on the main tank. how much did you pay if you dont mind me asking?
07-05-2006 10:28 by trickatech	sorry i mean a 20% water change on main tank. and if you are concerned put all your fish in the quarantine tank and give them the water changes as per treatment option 5
07-05-2006 10:30 by Michael C	Right i will try that then. Cheers
07-05-2006 10:33 by trickatech	what size i your tank michael just out of curiosity? and how much?
07-05-2006 11:09 by Michael C	its a rio 400

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