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Home      Reply		Viewed: 400 -- Replies: 35
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Posted	nitrite spike
22-06-2006 19:27 by frozenball	done some tests today and i got a spike in the nitrite and nitrate , please could you tell me what causes it and what i can do to prevent it . The only thing i belive i have done was that i added a yellow leather toadstool yesterday but it does look healthy, i do have a blue cheeck goby (been in the system around 3weeks) and two little common tank bread clowns (been in the system since fathersday) . The results sg 1.025 (lowered by .0005 since water change was 1.025 - 1.026 lowering it very slowly) ammonia 0 phosphate 0.01 nitrate 2 (yesterday0.5 two days before 0.5) nitrite 0.05 (yesterday 0.01 two days before 0) ph 8.4 kh 7.4 or the 2.63 figure ( this i belive to be a bit low how do i make it higher) calcium 440 magnesium 1290 ( will be buying some magnesium tommorow and seeking how to use it) thanks for any help mark
23-06-2006 02:08 by chromis124	this, i believe, is a marine question
23-06-2006 03:46 by frozenball	yes this is why i posted it in marine
23-06-2006 08:16 by Big Rob	frozen whats all this *** about marine forum this forum is for marine and fresh. 124 is a muppet
23-06-2006 09:06 by Alan	You have a list of things to post under when posting a new topic All Topics | General | Cichlids | Marine | Coldwater | Tanks/Equipment | Diseases | Members | Chat/Webmaster So if you want to filter out threads you just click on the appropriate heading most of the time people view All topics hence seeing all threads. Nitrate is nothing to worry about at 2 ppm there are people that dream of a nitrate figure of less than 25 ppm. Nitrite needs to be watched it is not at a dangerous level at the moment. How much were you feeding? It may be worth cutting back on the phyto a bit and with the frozen foods defrost it first and let the juices run out down the sink with a fine mesh net this will reduce the pollutants you are adding to the tank feeding can be a challenge it is a fine line between providing enough food and jeopardising water quality. The other thing it could be is the peppermint shrimps if they have pegged it then they will be polluting the water but they were small and your tank is big plus the grazers will find them and start eating them if they are dead. Your kh is low I keep mine at around 3.5 meq the magnesium could be a little higher but the carbonate hardness is the main concern. I use seachem additives. builder for carbonate hardness without effecting ph. magnesium does exactly what it says oon the tin. The other thing to note when you added the leather coral did it sloth off a mucus layer if so this may have had a slight impact on water quality. Just out of curiosity why are you lowering the salinity between 1.025 and 1.027 is ideal for a reef. This reduces the need for additives such as builders and calcium and the like.
23-06-2006 09:08 by Alan	Plus it is in the range of natural sea water.
23-06-2006 09:23 by D.R.	This nitrite spike normally occurs after new introductions, Lucky you for getting fish for fathers day! My daughter is too young to know that fish and only fish are suitable fathers day gifts. Filter bacteria are self-polluting in that they churn out NO2 and NO3 in the form of nitrous and nitric acid. Nitrous acid is a weak acid and so you get the reaction HNO2 <-------> H(+) + NO2(-) Hence your nitrite spike, the same applies for nitrate, although 2ppm is well safe for fish and inverts. Your pH is fine and shouldnt be affected as your filter matures/increases capacity. The carbonates and other cations Ca Mg will keep your system pH buffered.
23-06-2006 21:26 by frozenball	thanks yes i have stopped dropping the sg now at 1.025 . Lucally for me the spike is dropping off again . I gotta admit i used alittle bit of the seachems stability and two 10% water changes now i have readings of. ammonia 0 phos 0.01 nitrate 0.2 nitrite 0.01 think it was possible over feeding (i was feeding 3 fish 1and a 1/2 blocks in 3 sittings)i have dropped feeding to 1 cube of frozen a day in two sittings , it is hard though as the blue cheeck is well greedy he eats everything i put in the tank . Also i was adding marine snow every 3 days as per instructions . Yes i bought some seachems additives today one was kh buffer amd the other was magnessium powder or crystals they look like but i am not to concerned with these yet as i would like to get my nitrite back to zero and i cdont quiet understand the instructions yet belive i will have to work out some calculations . If the peppermints have pegged it surly i would see an ammonia increase or is this not so . Also i have i bucket of 10% water made up ready so i will add this tommorrow . When i start removing the filters i belive that i do this slowly bit by bit is this correct ?
26-06-2006 11:20 by Alan	Yes back off the filters gradually you won't need to feed as much as you are either certainly not with the phyto. Spend about 4 weeks shutting down the externals. Just remove a small amount of media every couple of days I would store the media you remove in a tray of salt water while you do this, it should keep it live just drop a small amount of food in every couple of days for the media you remove. Unless of course you don't want to keep this media live it all depends on what you intend to use it for infact considering your readings are as good as they are the system seems to be working well with the external(s) so perhaps you should leave them on and if you start to get a problem with high or creeping up nitrate levels then consider removing them I am a great believer in if it ain't broke don't fix it. For me externals were an unmitigated disaster driving my nitrates up through the roof but for you the externals and the live rock seem to be working okay together I would just keep a watching brief on it and see how it goes don't change anything yet.
26-06-2006 13:24 by frozenball	ageed i did not plan on loosing the fliters straight away i think i will just let what i got get on with life for the next couple of months as i do not want to rush anything , would like to add some more soft corals fist and a flame angle in about 8 weeks . The nitrite went up to 0.05 and seems to be holding at trace - 0.01 for some reason not sure why , though i did find an empty turbo shell no body though possible that as i suppose they do rot when they cark it . My only concern with the filters uv and skimming is that it is holding back pod development as i do want a mandrin sooner or later . I have only been adding marine snow every three days atm not sure if this is enough but when i do add it im shutting the skimmer and the mechanicle filters off for an hour also the nitrate is back to trace not even able to measure it as it is that little
26-06-2006 16:07 by Alan	Its all sounding good just a tip when photographing tanks turn the flash off.
27-06-2006 11:59 by frozenball	lol about the flash i did forget in that one , dont want to shock the stock in the tank . I do still have this nitrite and nitrate trace in my water , it is not enough to put a figure to it as it is so low what could be the cause of this please and how do i get it to zero again . also that soft coral in the picture never stands that tall anymore although the plate on the top seems to be larger . mag and kh levels are now normal
27-06-2006 13:46 by Alan	Nitrite should pass of its own accord it may be down to the external filter maturing as far as a nitrate trace that is nothing to worry about at all aslong as it stays at a trace. In fact some people say corals grow better with a nitrate reading up to 5 ppm I still aim for as low as possible though mine is in effect a trace its normally the second or third lowest reading possible on the salifert test after cleaning the sponges on my powerhaeds it drops to the lowest reading after about 6 hours. Its basically the artificial filtration that causes the nitrate trace in my tank I'm not to worried about it. With the mag and kh as well as calcium for that matter have you measured the consumption rate of your set up this is well worth doing you can then work out how much of the various supplements to dose daily to give as stable as possible conditions, its well worth the effort. As far as the coral goes are the polyps fully extended and open if so there is nothing to worry about its just settling in.
27-06-2006 23:04 by frozenball	yes the polops are fully extended and i seen them start to open for the first time tonight , i have been thinking about the nitrite trace could this be due to a sponge on my outlet of the skimmer as i did place one in the pipe to reduce the microbubble problem i had and it did eliminate them but its looking a bit grubby now , i havent measured the consumpition rate of the mag etc not sure how i would do this properly , and i dont yet add calcium i have heard that there can be related problems with adding calcium
28-06-2006 08:28 by Alan	All you do to measure consumption rate is test the water and then don't add any additives for a week and measure the various levels every day obviously if the levels drop to low you will have to boost them but you should get at least 2 days worth of readings before levels drop to low. Then all you do is take the value of the drop and divide it by the number of days you were able to leave it with out adding any additives that will give you the daily consumption rate.
29-06-2006 12:06 by frozenball	ok i will plan that for after my next water change and monitor the calcium , kh and mag . is there any easy way to add calcium if that starts to drop off ?
29-06-2006 14:22 by Alan	I just use seachems reef calcium as it is a blend of magnesium strontium and calcium as found in the sea apparently it works for me.
29-06-2006 23:11 by frozenball	is it liquid or powder alan / if so how are you adding it and mixing it i have no way of dripping into my system because of the lids on the tank
30-06-2006 08:42 by Alan	Once I have worked out the rate of depletion per day in the various minerals I work out how much I need to dose daily to keep the levels right. Then I just mix the powder with some RO water and pour it in by my seio pump. I test once every week to make sure all is as it should be last testing last night produced the following results: Mag 1380 ppm Calcium 520 ppm (A touch high at the moment) Alkalinity 2.86 (Too low for my liking) Nitrate 0 Phosphate <0.1 I'm only dosing with Seachem builder at the moment this contains calcium and magnesium and is keeping these levels up sufficiently at the moment so I don't need to dose with calcium or magnesium at all at the moment although I may boost the magnesium up to 1500 ppm haven't decided yet.
30-06-2006 10:59 by frozenball	lol thanks alan that exactally what i have done , mixed in a jug with ro water a poured near my pumps im leavung it around a day between adding the mag and kh buffer just because its recommended todays tests were sg 1.025 ammonia 0 phosphate trace (still a trace not sure where from) nitrate 0.1 nitrite 0.01 ph 8.4 mag 1230 ( just added some seachems) calcium 440 kh 7.4dkh or 2.63 (plan on adding some tommorow) temp 25 the algae seems to be clearing a bit , i put 20 more turbos in there and i had my first disaster yesterday , changed my uv bulb only to find out that there is a quartz sleeve in size it which is very fragile . you can imagine what happened but sorted now .
30-06-2006 11:20 by Alan	As disasters go thats pretty minor. As far as leaving a day between adding the various minerals I tend to leave the minimum of half an hour but leaving longer is best I'm just to impatient. I have found when using builder that it keeps my mag and calc fairly stable to. To maintain my kh I am dosing with 1.5 teaspoons of the stuff a day its a 60 gallon set up roughly probably about 50 gallons after displacement.
04-07-2006 22:43 by frozenball	looks like i am 4 - 5 tsp of mag and 1 and a half of kh but the calcium hasnt droped below 430 yet . Trying to do my testing around the same times
05-07-2006 11:47 by Alan	Has the calcium droped at all I found that the seachem builder I am using is keeping my calcium levels up at the moment with out me having to add a seperate calcium additive the same with the magnesium now as well. My calcium is a touch high at the moment it is still over 500 ppm!
05-07-2006 23:35 by frozenball	no it hast dropped yet , i am also using builder ( reef builder seachems ) lol i though it was just for the kh . I just got home this evening and the soft coral above seems to be leaning to one side almost like its folding over . All of the polyps are extended and opening and closing . I do hope it is ok
06-07-2006 08:57 by Alan	builder also contains calcium and magnesium its in the small print on the tub. Polyp extention is the key when dealing with corals if the polyps are extended no problems is it a leather coral? If so they tend to fold over from time to time its nothing to worry about.
06-07-2006 09:53 by frozenball	i belive that it is a yellow Toadstool Leather alan but am unsure as im new to all of this . It is what the lfs said it is but i have learnt not to trust lfs , please see the pic above . all of the polyp are extended this morning they started coming on just before the lights came on as regular as clockwork . calcium was at 400 this morning so i didnt add mag just the builder . Still learning my system
06-07-2006 13:04 by Alan	If it looks like that it looks fine to me
07-07-2006 00:26 by frozenball	not sure if where it was , was affecting it as it was in quiet a strong current so i have now moved it further up my rock work away from some of the current . as i said the polyps were fully extending and feeding but the actual plate on the top touched the rock this evening where it was folding over so much
07-07-2006 09:48 by Alan	Your water quality is spot on and the polyps are extending so it is a case of wait and see I wouldn't be overly concerned if the polyps are still appearing.
09-07-2006 10:39 by frozenball	and i still got this nitrite in my tests , its only ever like 0.01 and is bugging me to what is causing it as is did zero out during the cycle period on the up side spotted one of the peppermint shrimps last night they do or must hide really well as i havent seen them since i put them in
10-07-2006 09:25 by Alan	All 3 of mine disappeared for a few days and reappeared when I fed my fish but I can certainly agree with you on their hiding ability. What is the lowest possible nitrite reading on the test? Is the reading actually <0.01 or is it just 0.01 on the chart. I wouldn't worry to much about it to be frank if it is not climbing then its no problem may just be a glich on the test kit I mainly use them as a measure of consistency as a stable environment is far more important. Have you cut back on the feeding at all.
10-07-2006 15:01 by frozenball	0.01 salifert test kit so doing the low end of the scale look through the side of the glass and divide by 10 . Yes today i have started cutting back on the feeding as i was giving far to much but the blue cheek was beating the others to the grub. I have started giving very small amounts of flake ( formular one and formular two) through the day now and i have a bit of cyano pink algae on the sand . Have seen the nitrite totally clear on test results in the begining but it is going from 0.01 to 0.05 at times i suppose this is just down to everything being new . no where near danger zones and im sure my leather would close if it got to bad levels
11-07-2006 08:42 by Alan	I suspect it is down to the amount you are feeding.
11-07-2006 09:10 by frozenball	yes proberble is alan i have cut down to 1 block of frozen ( the blue cheek is really greedy and i have no wish to starve him )and a couple of tiny amounts of flake through the day . Also what do you recommend on water changes as i have read many different articles on the matter and some suggest like 20% every week and others suggest 5% every month . A bit of a difference and i do not want to kill any benifitial bacteria the main reason i belive for water changes are nitrate and to replace trace elements but i do not have a heavly stocked tank yet
11-07-2006 11:06 by Alan	I change about 7 gallons (roughly) every 2 weeks to a month the tank with sump has about 50 gallons of water (roughly) after displacement this works out to about 14%, providing the salinity is matched there will be no detrimental effect on the tank inhabitants the temp is something to watch to. As I am not carrying out water changes to remove pollutants I am quite flexible on this having said that after a water change every thing does perk up slightly so it is fairly obvious that trace minerals do become quite depleted over time. As you are very lightly stocked doing this once a month would be more than sufficient I suspect. There is a school of thought that with eco system type tanks in theory water changes should very rarely if at all be carried out and all trace elements should be supplemented. On paper this does make sense but as there are not tests for every single mineral needed and I believe there is only one product that doses all trace minerals without adding calcium or chloride for that matter it is a futile effort as succes will be more with luck than judgement. Hence I combine the ethos of eco system with carrying out semi regular water changes whilst supplementing when needed those minerals that can be tested for such as carbonate hardness calcium ph magnesium etc. Hope that helps!
11-07-2006 13:30 by frozenball	yea great i will stick to doing it between 2 and 4 weeks at the moment untill i start to stock it , i got some blue spotted mushrooms today and they are lovely , i belive a nice easy one to keep

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