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Home      Reply		Viewed: 284 -- Replies: 19
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Posted	PH up
29-06-2006 14:35 by biff2100	Please help, I setup a marine tank about 3 months ago now may be a little longer ago? Its an 180Ltr tank with no flash kit apart from a pump to help give water movement and the standard filter and heater and marine lighting one blue tube and one normal. I have the norm live rock and sand did have 4 fish but now only 1 (flame Clowen) and 2 coral 1 devil fingers and I did have about 12 green mushrooms. I was testing my water weekly and all seemed ok however my tank started to fill up about 2 weeks ago with hair algae and my mushrooms started to shred white flesh from them and the devil fingers with drew its white tentacles and also started to shred its flesh? During this time all my water testing seemed fine Nitrite, PH, ammonia and nitrate. I went to my local supplier for some advice and he told me it’s likely to be due to high levels of phosphates because as it seems I was leaving my lights on for fare to long (12hr min silly man I know) Any way he recommended a 10% water change which I did and also to add a bag of phosphate sponge to reduce the phosphates, again which I did. The good news is I managed to save some mushrooms and my devil fingers, however the tentacles very rarely come out now and the tank seems very clean, I also plan to do another water change this week. The bad news is I can’t get my PH up from 7.8 (note before the water change it was ok and yes I did add sea salt before adding the PO water). 1st I used PH up but this had no effect at all, so I went back to the supplier and he seems to think its as a result of there been no buffer (I find this hard to believe given I put buffer into the tank weekly) any way I took his advice and got some seabuff 8.3 by waterlife, I think this did make a little difference raising my PH to about 8 from 7.8 but I cannot get my ph up to 8.2. Can you please help tell me how to raise my PH and how to get my devil fingers to full heath again? I think I lost my fish due to the drop in PH but any more info would be welcome. Thanks in advance for your help.
29-06-2006 14:43 by trik	first of what salt are you using.
29-06-2006 14:46 by biff2100	red sea coral salt and my SG is at 1.023
29-06-2006 14:51 by trik	well idealy your sg wants to be up about 1.026. if you use Ro water the ph on Ro is around 6.7 , hece the question about salt, wen using ro water u must use the more expensive salt as this will have the right balance to bring your Ro water back to 8/8.3 i use marine pro its not cheap but you get wat you pay for.
29-06-2006 14:56 by biff2100	That’s interesting the books I have and the shop told me to have a SG at about 1.022 to 1.023. However when my devil was doing ok my SG was up in the 1.024 area? Any more tips?
29-06-2006 15:03 by trik	most reefers keep the sg up around the 1.026 mark its closest to natural see levels, so start by uping your sg BUT VERY SLOWLY you dont want to cause osmotic shock bring it up over a few days . Check that your salt is ok for ro water if not you will either have to add all the right cemicals at the right amount (pain in the bum) or just buy the right salt as i said i only use matine pro now , i used to use the one with a clown on the box with ro and had the same problem as you then some one told me it was no good to use with ro unless you added all the extra chemicals.
29-06-2006 15:04 by Alan	You need to be testing the following as testing ph ammnia nitrite and nitrate is not enough. Calcium needs to be monitored carbonate hardness/alkalinity needs to be tested as well. Also as you have found phosphates need to be tested for I would recommend using salifert kits. sg ideally should be at least 1.025 to 1.027 this is the range found in natural sea water in places it is sometimes higher. Also what are you measuring salinity with if it is a hydrometer stick it in the bin and get a refractomer www.stm-shop.co.uk is a good place to look will cost you about £40 best piece of kit I have. Can you also give a detailed breakdown of all the equipment you have and all of the latest test results. Incidentally 12 hour photoperiod should cause no problem whatsoever my reef frequently get a photoperiod of around 14 hours. also watch the temperature it should be at 24 c if it goes above this regularly first make sure your heater is set right and use a clip on desk fan aimed at the waters surface to keep it cool. Once you have posted all the necessary information as listed above we will be able to give you a comprehensive list of your problem areas and how to solve them all.
29-06-2006 15:43 by biff2100	Thanks guy this really helps. I'll start with the lighting i have 1 x marine blue tube and 1 x standard tube what I got with the tank. i now have a timer on the lighting which is now on for 8 to 6 hours. The tank is 180 ltr with 1 x heating tube readings at 78F which again i got with the tank so its the right rating. The filter is a Eheim CCCo again rated to the tank spec and all supplied by my local shop in Aberdeen, in the filter I have 1 bag of Kent marine phosphate sponge. Also I have a pump not sure on the rating but seems ok at moving the water (not to strong or light) The water I did a change after the first 6 week and then 4 weeks after that from then on I have done a water change about ever 10 - 14 days, however I’m going to do another 10% change this week after doing one last week. All my readings have bee taken with the Saltwater master test kit testing for the norm nitrite, Ammonia, Nirate and PH. My current readings are Nitrite0 ppm/ Ammonia 0 - 0.25 ppm / Nitate 0 - 5.0 ppm and PH is now at 8.0 i think but its hard to tell 7.8 - 8.0 I guess and I do use a hydrometer so ill look up the web site, thanks for that. I feed the fish or the 1 fish i have now with flakes on a morning, frozen food on an evening and kent marine Zooplex every 2 days for the coral. I also add red sea PH buff once weekly.
29-06-2006 22:58 by gary power	firstly your tank is only three months old its gone through the nitrogen cycle which takes three months, so hair algae is normal, adding fish so early doesnt work they cant cope with the stresses. You should of used a cheap black molly they tolerate salt water and start of the cycle with ammonia never mind! Your corals will be ok theyre just shredding their skin to adapt to water conditions. Your nearly there take no *** from shops they are sales reps not marine biologists, never do 10per cent water changes you will lose valuable plankton and diatoms I recommend 5per cent monthly. Next simply add bicarbonate of soda to stabilize ph and get yourself about 10 red leg hermit crabs they love algae and try to cut down on the feeding one fish doesnt need feeding twice a day once every other day would be fine use one cube of brime shrimp a week to supplement the flakes. Good luck
30-06-2006 00:59 by gary power	please slow down on the food your putting in that alone will cause enough detrius to cause problems your getting and introduce fish back into your tank one a month and slow down with the water changes your not allowing your filtration time to kick in and your live rock to settle like i said earlier your tank has to stabilise and another thing your salt product is spot on i use red sea all the time i breed fish and propagate corals i know a fair bit about marines save your dough and take in some sound advice free of charge
30-06-2006 01:03 by gary power	p.s your right alans wrong sg at 1.022 _1.024 is perfect !
30-06-2006 08:59 by Alan	I beg to differ Gary power I began marine keeping thinkign the lower sg was ok for inverts it isn't at all and you end up battling with reduced buffering capacity. I'm not getting into an argument over sg I could do so very easily all I will say is look to nature for the ideal sg. Biff have you read any books on reef keeping and any magazines if not start buying magazines like practical fish keeping they do a readers reef every month you can then see for yourself the best sg to go for. It will also give you a good idea of the other parameters you need to be testing: alkalinity phosphates magnesium calcium I would agree with Gary that you are over feeding. You don't mention whether or not you have a protein skimmer if you don't in the place of skimming you will have to carry out a 10% water change every week contrary to Gary's advice. Alternatively get a skimmer for the tank the new TMC V skims are a very good adaptable budget options. I believe the smallest one starts at about £70 and is rated up to a 400 litre tank I think. Gary just as a note on the mollies they are found in freshwater brackish and full marine environments they don't tolerate salt water they actually thrive in it.
30-06-2006 12:58 by gary power	i thought a skimmer was in place if you have one and you should have one it is vital if you want a mini reef then what i advised on water changes is correct and alan isnt taking into account the fact you have fish yes i agree you could read up on sg for instance clownfish\aennenomies see what the sg levels are !
30-06-2006 13:03 by gary power	alan about the mollies i was just statin that biff could have saved on buying expensive marines only to lose them the molly is the cheap way to begin the nitrogen cycle dont you agree !!
30-06-2006 13:53 by gary power	with an sg of 1.027 and an inexperienced person when he gets water evaporation the sg will rise dont foget were advising a novice with basic stuff .sorry biff that one is for alan he may agree with me a bit now?
30-06-2006 13:59 by Alan	Succesful reef tanks run on at least an sg of 1.024 I found a massive improvement in polyp extension when I raised my sg to 1.026. As far as the fish go they are perfectly happy with an sg comparable to the sea it should be noted however that the higher the sg the lower the disolved oxygen but the disolved oxygen factor is of minimal concern infact is irrelevant if a good skimmer is used now this doesn't have to be high tech I use a lees counter current airdriven skimmer its internal but takes up very little space it cost me about £20. Something you may also find of interest the majority of public aquariums use natural sea water in all aquariums even the reefs, there are exceptions to this such as London aquarium as they do not have direct access to the sea and to be frank using water out of the Thames would be a pretty bad idea. I was taking into account the fish by the way the presence of fish actually increases the bio load and cause the necessity for the water change as a result of pollutants when working with a straight fishless reef water changes are only necessary to replenish those trace minerals that cannot be tested for.
30-06-2006 14:02 by Alan	Bill with evaporation top off with RO water on a daily basis to keep the levels the same. There you go gary advice given on how to address a gradually increasing sg due to evaporative losses. And gary when advising a novice is it advisable to tell them to use raw chemicals instead of off the shelf options I think not.
30-06-2006 14:47 by gary power	alan you sound like youve got marbles in your mouth i take it your a cockney yuppie boy with a phd on how to talk your way into making a buck or two quoting stuff youve learnt from your biology teacher .sad||
30-06-2006 20:41 by biff2100	Now now boys come on i'm very greatful to the both of you out of this in the middle some where i have got some good advise? I have increased my SG to just under 0.24 but i'll go upto .025~ over the weekend. I have just also found out that my coral maybe not so happy because i have glass brown things in my tank, so i read up and copper banded fish eat these right. Well i just got one along with some Tetratest KH/GH test kit. Happy fishing guys and keep smiling. Ho ill get a skimmer next month when i get paid, not sure were im going to put it mind?? Glenn
05-07-2006 13:34 by garry	ive been keeping marines for many years (2 and have a little knowledge about it ,i keep my 280 gall reef at 1.025 and as all that see it says it looks good if i was to keep fish only then a sg of 1.022 would be prefered as more oxygen saturation is avaliable at lower sg as for gary power then to resort to your last thead is childish and uncalled for we all have our oppinions and no single person knows it all thats why this thread is here so people that are not sure can ask the more expereanced people and hopfully get help as for muturing the tank ,he had live rock so if the rock was good muture stuff you would be able to start stocking straight away as i did with no probs

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