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Viewed: 1844 -- Replies: 19 | ||||||||
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| Posted | white spot treatment - stingrays |
| 27-06-2005 04:34 by Alan |
I have just had a white spot out break in a tank that is home to a sting ray as well as a few other fish the difficulty I am having is finding a treatment that would be safe with a fresh water ray. Has any one had any experience with treatments like this and rays, for the record I have used Myxazin and Melafix in the past on this tank Myxazin has a slight effect on rays and Melafix does not bother them in my experience. Unfortunately neither are effective against whitespot in both cases I have used this treatment to deal with injuries bought about by fighting fish. Water quality is perfect Ammonia Nitrite and Nitrate undetectable ph 6.8 KH 6-7. |
| 28-06-2005 10:13 by Alan |
Just an update for above if anyone else encounters this problems. I phoned Waterlife yesterday to discuss this dilemna they suggested I first attempt a cure using Myxazin which is a 5 day course using half the recommended dose and an increased temperature in the aquarium, I have already been working on this I'm currently on day 3 sting ray is fine.
If this fails I was advised to use a half dose of Octozin apparently this works differently from most treatments which is why I prosume it is safe with invertebrates but if treating with this half some carbon on stand by and be prepared to do an immediate series of water changes if the ray shows any distress, if it comes to using Octozin I will keep you posted as white spot treatments and stingrays seem a touchy subject. Equally I will be keeping my LFS informed of progress for the future. |
| 29-06-2005 02:56 by Alan |
Further update to the treatment Sting ray is fine but unfortunately 3 other fish are suffering ill effects due to the treatment, these fish being 2 talking catfish and 1 large Black Ghost Knife fish. 3 days have been completed with the treatment this has significantly reduced the infestation of whitespot although it has not altogether been irradicated. I have carried out a water change and will attempt treatment using Octozin on a half dose at the weekend this treatment is apparently suitable for treating whitespot in invertebrate aquaria as well but works differently from Myxazin hopefully I will have more success. |
| 01-07-2005 04:02 by Alan |
Further update Black ghost knifefish became engulfed in fungus I have never seen anything like it. One talking catfish died the other is in a very bad way the one clown loach I had without whitespot spontaneously died it was showing no signs of ill health. Thankful I only used half dose otherwise I maybe losing more fish. Sting ray now in a bad way to maybe showing early signs of death curl, pretty miffed at the moment the ray was a risk I did not expect the other fish to be at risk especially not on a half dose.
Attempting to de-stress ray will probably fail but apparently adding salt to the tank helps it is a trick used by exporters to reduce loses. Knifefish is recovering all fungus gone the talking cat that remains has not deteriorated further no change in the sting ray.  |
| 01-07-2005 17:05 by rob |
how long did you leave it before trying diff meds as you should leave it for 4 days or more before trying some other med
as if you dont they can react with each other and cause problems |
| 04-07-2005 05:38 by Alan |
I have not used any additional treatments Myxazin is the only treatment I have used which is supposedly reef safe, equally I have used this treatment before to deal with a secondary infection caused by fighting on my ray over 6 months ago. Plus salt was not added until all treatment had been removed from my tank via in excess of 6 50% water changes and filtration over activated carbon.
This treatment has killed 7 fish in all on a 50% dose these are fish that have coped with this treatment with zero ill effects before including the ray. I have contacted the manufacturers as I suspect the batch maybe suspect, especially considering this was a methodology recommended by 3 completly seperate organisations one being an importer another being a large chain of shops the other being the manufacturer. The only fish of the 8 affected that has so far survived is the Black ghost knife fish. These are my only loses in over 5 years due to anything other than old age or extreme fighting (used to keep rift valley cichlids). some of the fish I have lost I had had for over ten years. Gutted is an understatement! I never commenced treatment with Octozin there was no point and as you said 4 days at least would need to have elapsed which they would not have done. |
| 04-07-2005 08:54 by Alan |
The treatment manufacturer have contacted me and as a result are going to test their sample of the treatment batch I will keep you posted. |
| 04-07-2005 15:13 by rob |
keep us posted plz allan as i work in an aquatics shop and have noticed treatment with myxazin is causing a lot of deaths so it could well be a bad batch
if so i will contact manufacturer aswell and complain i know how you feel about the losses its heartbreaking even worse when it could be caused by something that is supposed to help them |
| 05-07-2005 04:09 by Alan |
Rob contact them now batch number I'm having trouble with is lot B84.
Even if you don't know the batch that caused you problems it is worth letting them know. |
| 05-07-2005 23:18 by rob |
will contact them on thursday as im not in work on weds and will check batch number on bottles we have |
| 06-07-2005 09:42 by Alan |
Let me know what they say I suspect as all businessess do they will say "We haven't had any complaints".
If they say that I suspect it will be quite telling! |
| 07-07-2005 09:34 by Alan |
Had a reply from the manufacturer the fish they are testing on are still fine we shall have to see how they are after 5 days.
This treatment was the only variable in an otherwise healthy tank bourne out by a thriving and greedy stingray. I can see no other trigger to the problem we shall see what they come up with. |
| 09-07-2005 18:07 by rob |
they say nothing wrong with batch we have they say it must be the fish themselves (too much inbreeding making the fish weaker and weaker ) |
| 11-07-2005 13:26 by Alan |
Shock horror.
I suspect the method of killing my fish was the effect on the filter bacteria, the treatment has wiped them out it seems I'm currently struggling to re-establish the bacteria in my fluidised bed and fluval 303 I'm going to boost the filtration by putting a 404 on the tank as well that should be enough for a 330 gallon tank. I only realised when my tank went a milky colour at the weekend I have had no detectable ammonia but it was obviously enough to effect the sensitive fish I keep. I have just contacted my local water company as well to see if they have recently started using Chloramine and ammonium as part of the water supply treatment. If it is this its a sick coincidence I will keep you posted, are you based in the South east if so it maybe this and again I will keep you posted. The stress coat I use removes chlorine and chloramine but it doesn't deal with ammonium which is sometimes used with chloramine. If this is the case I will start to use a different tapwater treatment ammo lock or a kent product whatever is cheaper. I lost another fish unfortunately a 14" long Black ghost knife fish, now exceedingly gutted all other fish are fine though. 6 Syno's (membranaceus 7"; decorus 11"; angelicus 7"; congicus 5"; pardalis 5"; unknown 2.5") an ornate polypterus 12" and a Heros Notatus 4-5". You may have gathered I like Syno's. I have a pair of rays on order either 2 reticulata or 2 histrix not to fussed which but will hopefully grow them on and breed them thats the aim I don't like fish coming from the wild so if I do my bit I will be quite happy. |
| 11-07-2005 19:21 by rob |
no im in the north east
tap water conditoner by api helps deal with heavy metals in the water as well is there anyplace near you that sells RO water if so i would recomend you use that instead of tap water |
| 12-07-2005 08:28 by Alan |
*** good so this definately isn't the cause it must be the treatment its the only variable that has changed.
Oh well, I do have my own 100 gpd RO unit that I use for my marine tank but I have succesfully kept discus in this tap water and to be fair marine as well. There is some chloramine in my tap water but it is produced by the reaction between chlorine and organics in the water it is not deliberately added and equally no ammonium is added to stabalise it all level are well below what any test kit could hope to pick up that includes nitrate. I'm never moving house with water like this! I think I will put this down to learning I don't like it but I will never use any treatment with a ray again or anything to be fair whatever I treat will be removed to a quarantine tank for treatment I just need to find one big enough! I suspect the cause of the out break was due to stress on the new introductions because the water was so good I have found it goes both ways if a fish comes from bad to good water its equally stressful. What a pain! |
| 15-07-2005 00:15 by rob |
that is so true allan people dont relise what can cause stress in fish as you say moving from poor water to good water can be just as stressfull as the reverse |
| 19-07-2005 23:41 by Phil M |
Whenever i get whitespot in my tanks, i always crank the temperature up to 30 as the whitespot organism cannot survive at this temperature and i leave it there for about a week with added wtaer movemant and aeration to allow for the oxygen loss at higher temperatures. i don't know if this would have been any help at the time (i don't know how high temperature rays can tolerate) and if it would i am sorry to have found this website so late. |
| 19-07-2005 23:41 by Phil M |
Whenever i get whitespot in my tanks, i always crank the temperature up to 30 as the whitespot organism cannot survive at this temperature and i leave it there for about a week with added wtaer movemant and aeration to allow for the oxygen loss at higher temperatures. i don't know if this would have been any help at the time (i don't know how high temperature rays can tolerate) and if it would i am sorry to have found this website so late. |
| 25-07-2005 11:41 by Alan |
I have found that all cranking the temp up does is increase the speed of the parasites life cycle it has never actually cured the problem for me I did crank the temp up though as this works in support of any treatment as the treatments only kill the parasite when it is free swimming. I have heard the a combination of cranking the temp up and using salt works well and rays will tolerate this for at most a week at quite high levels but again the parasite is only effected when free swimming not when they are cysts or embedded in the fish. |
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