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05-07-2006 14:54 by wymcot	Webmaster Please do the site a favour and remove this ad, it does nothing for the integrity of the site and I have sent the guy a message to do the decent thing, I doubt he'll take any notice
05-07-2006 14:55 by wymcot	sorry, heres the link http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail.php?cat=100&de=48124
05-07-2006 15:08 by telboy	hello wymcot,dont get me wrong im not having a pop or being nasty in any way im just confused as to your objection! mind you the water does seem very murky?
05-07-2006 15:44 by wymcot	Telboy - My objection is not around personal issues with the guy himself as he obviously doesnt know better. Apart from not knowing what he is keeping, and obviously not understanding the dietry requirements (you NEVER give Malawi Mbuna bloodworm. It does beg the question on other requirements ie water parameters etc), required by Malawi's. My main issue, and this admittedly is one of my own personal gripes, is that these are poor quality fish, that will most definately go on to breed even poorer quality offspring. These in turn will be sold to unsuspecting individuals or ruthless LFS and the story goes on. Malawi's are so easy to breed, but at the end of the day are specialist species and the market is so full of interbred rubbish, anyone seriously considering setting up a Malwi tank, stands a very good chance of getting seriously " ripped off". I seriously hope no-one on this site buys any of these fish
05-07-2006 15:45 by Danny Boy	mutts?
05-07-2006 15:46 by wymcot	BD _ as usual short and to the point, but true, as long as your reffering to the fish
05-07-2006 16:04 by telboy	make ya right wymcot! thanks for explanation
05-07-2006 16:50 by seawolf	hello i am the fish keeper you are complaining about , i have been keeping malawi's for 1 year and fish keeping for 4 , i have 3 tanks in operation at the moment and have had only two casualties since the set up , and even i class this as two to many. both these fish one an electric blue ran into the side glass, and the other bullied by the other malawies ( and i don't suppose that has happened to any one else before . question 1 feeding of blood worm ? my tank is full of malawies of all diffrent types and coloures including the for mentioned electric blue! these are fish eaters so flake is not ideal for them because they require high protein food , and baby malawies require high protien food when young only then going on to low protien flake when they get older to stop malawi bloat. question 2 not knowing the species ,there are approximately 600 known species in lake malawi ,and that is without the cross breeds ,as well as the experts changing there latin names every two seconds that is why no names where given an photos displayed ( and if i had gave a name someone would have wrote a letter to tell me it was wrong ) can't win either way ! question 3 bad health or cloudy tanks, i had no disease in my tanks in two years and use no medication , they are kept in bracish water ( 1 teaspoon of salt to a gallon) and are in fine health . the cloudy pictures are from the low quality of the camera and not the tank. i would be stupid to put an ad in a place like this and have dodgy fish because i would get banded for life. water changes are done 1/3 change every two weeks and beleive it or not i own and use a tester kit ! these fish were put on this site so fellow fish keepers could get new stock at a low price , as my malawies will just not stop breeding , and as the add say's collection only you get to see your fish and how there kept before you buy and can even see the parents. the price is only to cover the food for the last 3 months . i was first offended when i received the e- mail ,but i also understand that someone has to be the guardian of this site , keep up the good work. carl
05-07-2006 17:15 by deejdave	Salt in an african tank? High protein food? You really need to buy a book and do some learning with regard to keeping these species as you obviously do not have a clue.
05-07-2006 17:20 by wymcot	seawolf- firstly thankyou for being big enough to reply to this thread, others would just have gone into auto attack mode If I can help in anyway please feel free to contact me via this site, I would however like to add to your comments 1/ If you are keeping Haps then your statement would be OK, but you are keeping Mbuna which are vegetarian by nature 2/As for identifying the species, it is clear they are from the Maylandia/Metriclima species (both the same thing) and could be either Gershaki or Estherae but in either case, they are poor specimens 3/I would ask the following in addition to the description you have given about tank conditions and your statment that you own a test kit. Do you know what your PH,GH,KH,Nitrite & Nitrate levels are and do you know what the requirements are for Malawi's. Just because fish do not die infront of your eyes, doesnt mean they being kept in the correct conditions. Fish breeding is also not a good indication that everything is well, but it could be assumed its not all bad either As I said originally in this thread, this is not a direct attack on yourself and I apologise if it seemed so. You obviously, by your very reply, care for the fish. My point was entirely based on the fish welfare and the fact that the Malawi market is being flooded by sub-standard fish, and on this point I make no apology as your fish, unfortunately, appear to be just that. Once again, thankyou for taking time to reflect without taking my comments the wrong way. I'm afraid though that my original suggestion made in the email that you should remove the ad, still applies
05-07-2006 17:20 by darren	CLOWN
05-07-2006 17:23 by wymcot	darren -not sure who your reffering to but if its me, I'll ignore you. However if its seawolf, give the guy a chance before passing comment
05-07-2006 17:35 by paul stevens	But you didnt give him a chance wymcot,why didnt you wait for the guys reply first ?? And i keep malawi's and i give them bloodworm and they love it but along side that they have there staple diet aswell. Im not having ago but i think theres a right and wrong way of doing things you went the right way at first by sending him a message but you could of waited a bit for hes reply and some of the things you are saying wymcot are right.
05-07-2006 17:43 by wymcot	paul - if your reffering to seawolf, I did wait for the guys reply which he chose to post on here as opposed to replying to my direct contact via the ad. Bloodworm & Malawi's do mix but only with Haps. Mbuna's intestinal tract is not designed to dijest it, that why its so long in comparison the protein eating species, although they will eat as much as you throw at them. Having been thru the Malawi bloat syndrome, I would not wish anyone else to have this experience, and longterm feeding of bloodworm to mbuna, is a sure fire way of finding out the consequences
05-07-2006 17:55 by darren	Wymcot, It's not you mate,sorry if i offended you but there are enough sources to read/learn from and it's not as if nobody keeps Mbuna is it
05-07-2006 18:09 by wymcot	Darren - No offence taken. A lot of folk are sold Mbuna by LFS's and are not told the whole story. In the majority of cases the current situation is down to them, thankfully there are still the decent ones out there
05-07-2006 18:24 by tony mcculloch	you cant go far wrong if you take wymcots advise, his cichlids are of superb quaility. its hard identifying a purebred these days, let alone a hybrid. thanks to him my tanks are more organised and I have a greater understanding of what I keep, which is mbuna in one tank and happs in another, cheers m8.
05-07-2006 18:32 by seawolf	hello the tank 60" by 15"by 12" conditions are ph 7.9 ammonia 0 nitrite 0.3 nitrate 5 temp 25 filtration 1 fluval 3 plus 1 fluval 4 plus plus 2 air stone 6" each ocean rock & coral sand thank you for clearing up the matter of the electric blue been malawi not hap.(will no longer feed bloodworm) as people keep telling me i should buy a book , i have many !and have read them. before setting up my malawi tank i read up on the subject and got a lot information before starting my tank including pfk magazine january 2005 (my moneys on mumba page 52) before i undertook this prodject. as the general concensus on this forum is to remove these fish i will do so, but can anybody out their tell me how to stop breeding them as there is 6 more orange ones still in the main tank , and what to do with 75 malawies nobody wants? as these where not breed for selling just over prodution by the fish. carl
05-07-2006 18:42 by steve gast	the guy has every right to advertise his fish on here, but also its nice of you to advise Wymcot, but i dont think Webby shold simply be taking off adverts because the seller isnt an expert, this has worked out well now.
05-07-2006 18:55 by webmaster	nice to see a thread sorting itself out. we cannot delete adverts just because of inexperience. we all made mistakes in the fishkeeping learning process.
05-07-2006 18:56 by TARTINJOCK	Get something in the tank to eat them, sounds nasty but in reality, it's not, I have a 7" Burchar in my tank with Malawi and although it feeds on Prawn ,cockle and the like it will also eat the young, part of nature I am sure you will agree, although I do not want animals to suffer in any way, I am a true believer that let nature happen, I did with my Oscars and fed them live food only occasionally, as live feeding only can be not very cost effective, however you will be feeding a fish with fish that are needing to be controlled, no different to getting a cat to eat mice in a barn or whatever the prey/predator need is. Cheers
05-07-2006 19:04 by seawolf	THE AD HAS GONE! BUT IT STILL LEAVES THE QUESTION WHAT TO DO WITH OVER PRODUCTION OF MALAWIES WHEN CROSS BREEDING HAPPENS , AS THESE WHERE TAKEN OUT OF THE TANK AFTER NATURAL CULLING HAD FINISHED AND TO STOP OVER CROWDING . MAYBE THIS COULD BE THE NEXT THREAD ON THE FORUM? PS BABIES ARE HELD IN A 48" BY12" BY 18 " TANK TO STOP OVER CROWDING AND ARE BETWEEN 1 CM TO 6 CM SO THEY ARE TO BIG TO BE NATURALY CULLED BY OTHER FISH . CARL
05-07-2006 19:08 by yanton	i have fgound that the best way to handle malawis babies is to (a) not seperate them and have loads of rockwork, so just a few will survive, or (b) give them away and make some new friends.
05-07-2006 19:14 by Danny Boy	thanks to wymcots maturity along with seawolfs honesty its good to see the forum being used properly. a pat on the back for both of you.
05-07-2006 19:16 by TARTINJOCK	You could always have an Oscar in your Fry tank?
05-07-2006 19:24 by dave cook	its building up to be a good one hello all by the way
05-07-2006 19:27 by steve gast	cross breeding is an inevitable problem within the hobby. If there is an over production of fish its handy to have some carnivorous fish to help out.
05-07-2006 19:27 by seawolf	HI THANK FOR THE COMMENT YANTON , I DO HAVE LOTS OF ROCK WORK IN MY TANK BUT THAT STARTED ALL MY PROBLEMS AS THEY CAN HIDE TO WELL FOR THE BIG FISH TO CATCH THEM. SECOND IDEA ABOUT GIVING THEM AWAY, THE PROBLEM IS THIS DEBATE STARTED BECAUSE I WAS SELLING POSSIBLE SUBSTANDARD / UN HEALTHY FISH AND THE OBJECTION WAS ME WATERING DOWN THE MALAWI GENE POOL WITH UNWORTHY FISH ,SO GIVING THEM AWAY INSTEAD OF SELLING STILL GETS THEM OUT ON THE MARKET ! THE OTHER OPPTION WAS FEED THEM TO SOMETHING, I HAVE OSCAR ALSO VEGETARIAN GIRLFRIEND , I WANT TO KEEP ONE AND THE OTHER WILL EAT PRAWNS AND PELLETS . CARL
05-07-2006 20:05 by tony mcculloch	get yourself some synadontis cats, these will help keep the fry population down, petricola is one to name or multipunctatas!!!!!
05-07-2006 20:10 by Big Rob	add lobsters or crabs
05-07-2006 20:15 by seawolf	HI BIG ROB HAD CRABS GOT EATEN, HAD BLUE LOBSTER BUT CAUSED MALAWI TO FIGHT MORE BECAUSE IT WOULD STAKE A TERRETORIE AND NOT LET THE FISH IN THE ROCKS SO MAKING FISH RE-FIGHT FOR THE AVALIBLE SPACE CARL
05-07-2006 20:17 by seawolf	HI TONY WAS LOOKING AT CAT'S ON A WEB SITE YESTERDAY BUT DID NOT SAY HOW BIG THEY GROW CARL
05-07-2006 20:18 by Big Rob	without territory less breeding.surely that would help
05-07-2006 20:21 by seawolf	HI BIG ROB VALID POINT ! CARL
05-07-2006 20:28 by tony mcculloch	there are various synadontis, the petricola and multies only remain small at a couple of inches and are very slow growing, then theres the eruptus, angelicas, and decorus, these a quite rapid growers and reach on average about 8 inches or so. personaly I prefer the petricola but its better to have a good shoal of them. theres also the much nicer slim brichardi, more expencive but well worth it. not sure how big the brichardi grows?
05-07-2006 20:32 by seawolf	THANKS TONY A USEFUL PEACE OF INFO ! CARL
05-07-2006 20:44 by seawolf	THANKS FOR ALL THE USEFUL ADVICE AND TIPS , WILL BE BACK AGAIN SO FOR NOW CARL
05-07-2006 22:18 by wymcot	seawolf- in order to help you understand a little more Malawi Chiclids consist of two groups of fish, the Haplochrimes (Haps) which live in open water and Mbuna which are rock dwellers. Haps grow significantly larger than mbuna and are normally less territorial and aggresive. You can learn a lot more from these sites which were a great help to me when I started keeping Malawi's http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/index.html http://www.malawimayhem.com/profiles.php?filter=AB You can also learn a lot from this site which is the only Malawi dedicated site in the UK http://www.malawikeepers.com/index.php I hope this helps
05-07-2006 23:59 by jayish	Can someone send me a copy of the ad i wanna see how bad it was if it was bad at all?
06-07-2006 00:02 by steve gast	there was nothing wrong with the advert, its a mountain out of a molehill, the one good to come out of it was some decent communication about fish keeping, which is what the forum should be about as for the Ad - as Webmaster stated in this thread, was fine, its not for people to request adverts are pulled just because the seller maybe not quite as knowledgable as the person requesting the advery get pulled
06-07-2006 00:26 by paul stevens	Sorry i couldnt reply after my last post had to go out. But im back now mmmmmmm, Right where does this all come from about people feeding fish to fish it seems to me when ever someone mentions about they need some fry to feed there fish they get jumped on now your telling seawolf to get an oscar or a crab etc etc to keep hes fry population down, i dont get it some times. I think some of you need to go back and read this thread from the start again at what you have been telling him to do on this thread but on other threads it is wrong. And wymcot i know you have got some malawi's mate ive seen some of ya pics THINK! and what lovley fish they are to. So i think your advice should be taken seriously.
06-07-2006 00:28 by steve gast	nothing wrong with feeding fish to fish, as long as the fish doing the eating likes it
06-07-2006 00:29 by paul stevens	Steve gast shouldnt you be giving us an intro about your self as you have only replyed to 2 threads so far.
06-07-2006 00:30 by steve gast	no paul not really, i am not into all this intro stuff, my business is my business you know? i told someone who kept askin' (think it was PI Trick) - Steve Gaston, Yorkshire, Severums
06-07-2006 00:33 by paul stevens	This was the ad. BABY MALAWI FOR SALE-north devon 1 pound each. Description: hi there! baby malawi for sale, don't know type dad is blue/white fish in picture and mum is orange/peach in other picture (both not for sale). we have about 75 or there abouts for 1 pound each, and are for COLLECTION ONLY ! TRADE INQUIRIES ARE WELCOME AND DISCOUNT WILL BE GIVEN IF YOU BUY ALL OF THEM ! i am open to swaps (BUT NOT COMMON TROPICALS) THESE FISH ARE HEALTHY AND ARE ON A DIET OF FLAKE AND BLOODWORM. PLEASE E-MAIL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS OR SWAPS AND I WILL REPLY ASAP. I CAN NOT DELIVER AS DON'T DRIVE ! CARL
06-07-2006 00:34 by steve gast	its a good ad one of the best i've seen
06-07-2006 00:35 by paul stevens	So there for we can presume that you have already got a user name is this forum but your using a diff one now.
06-07-2006 00:35 by steve gast	ok fair point about bloodworm and malawi, but i am not sure if ALL malawi are alergic to bloodworm????? and atleast the guy is giving details, most people just say FISH FOR SALE if a knoweldgeable person buys the fish they can ask about the bloodworm, good Advert
06-07-2006 00:40 by steve gast	you can presume all you like Paul Stevens, why dont you get in touch with Trik, you and him seem like buddies (chums) i am answering questions and contributing to threads, If you think that why dont you report to Webmaster?
06-07-2006 00:47 by paul stevens	So what makes you think we are buddies. And i havnt got a reason to report you to webbie. Just that in this forum all NEW? users put an intro up but if you dont want to thats fine no law against it.
06-07-2006 00:49 by steve gast	Paul, you and "Trik" have noth commented the same to me but i will think you find "intro's" are voluntary i have no yearning to "announce" my arrival onto the forum Paul Paul- life is changing, are you?
06-07-2006 00:51 by paul stevens	LOL my life changed when i got married.
06-07-2006 00:54 by steve gast	Paul - wife is changing, are you?
06-07-2006 10:04 by wymcot	Can I for closure, clarrify my reasons for asking for the ad to be removed, without I hope, opening up the whole debate again. My main concen was based entirely on poor quality fish once again entering the market. This was further compounded by Seawolf's obviously lack of knowledge in this case, something he was big enough to admit. I could have just justs as easily ignored the whole thing, but some of you may have actually bought some of these fish, and potentially been dissappointed. I am a keen Malawi's fan and would strongly encourage anyone to take an interest in this part of our hobby. So on that basis is it not fair to expect fish, which normally demand a high price, be of good quality. Most of us know that there is very little challenge in breeding malawi's, and it is all too easy to become over-run with fish that very few people actually want. Couple that with the ease in which some of these can hybridise, the fact that nature has no opportunity to thin out the weakest, and what have you got?. The type of fish that seems to be coming common place in an increasing number of LFS's As far as Seawolf is concerned, there was absolutely nothing personal in my remarks, and it was like a breath of fresh air that we could both sensibly discuss our views on this forum. For thank I thank him

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