Home Adverts Recent Added Auction Scam Alerts Forum List Your Ad ShopAds Videos Directory
Tropical Fish Aquariums & Equip Marine Fish & Marine Inverts Cichlids Malawi Tanganyikan Cichlids
Wanted Discus Goldfish, Koi & Ponds Retailers & Services ALL ADS By County

Home      Reply		Viewed: 1703 -- Replies: 34
PM | All Topics | General | Cichlids | Marine | Coldwater | Tanks/Equipment | Diseases | Members

Posted	dropsy
07-07-2006 08:06 by kell	I think my goldfish has dropsy. It started as what looks like cysts on her sides, now one side of her has swelled up and `pineconed`, she is feeding and seems ok. When fish `pinecone` can it be one sided or should I expect the whole fish to swell up? Also I started on anti bacterial meds yesterday and I am doing waterchange every 2 days, what else should I do?
07-07-2006 09:05 by D.R.	Kell treat with anti-internal bacteria if its dropsy. Also add some tonic salt to the tank (should really be an isolation tank). Most fish dont recover when its at the acute stage I'm sorry to say. Its because of the imbalance in fluids that causes the swelling. Adding salt keeps the osmolarity of the water the same as the fish, therefore less stressful for the fish as it does not need to regulate this.
07-07-2006 09:52 by Danny Boy	kell looks like its too late for this fella. id expect to have to put him down pretty soon. might be worth having a look at your water change routine and see if we can find any issues there. at least that way we may prevent it happening again. its normally related to bad water conditions weakening the fish immune system.
07-07-2006 10:11 by kell	I understand that its not hopeful for the fish, only thing I can put it down to being is water quality, as I found old blood worms under the filter when I first noticed she was ill. Im sad I dont want to have to kill her
07-07-2006 10:12 by Kaylyn	Hi Kell, Im sorry to say but there is no cure for dropsy. It is best if you euthanize the fish by placing him in a bag and putting him in the freezer. This is the best pain free way for a fish to die as it slowly sends the fish into a deep sleep and it looses consciousness.
07-07-2006 11:33 by Danny Boy	DONT FREEZE YOUR FISH!!!!!! its a very cruel method! if you must euthaninse put the fish in a bag and bash it against the wall. freezing fish causes the cells to expand causing pain. also dont use vodka its yet another way to make the fish keeper feel better but it prolongs a painful death. also dropsy CAN be cured in some cases.
07-07-2006 11:56 by kell	Well Ive quarentined her in a bucket, with clean pretreated water, Ive also added tonic salt to the water and a anti internal bacterial medicine (sera baktupur), Ive added a filter in the bucket as well. On the med bottle it says day one added meds, day 2 add nothing, day 3 add meds. Should I change water on day 2, nothing is said on the med lable but the filter in there isnt cycled. Also what about feeding should I leave feeding until meds is over or because she is feeding should I feed her?
07-07-2006 12:27 by D.R.	NO PLEASE DONT FEED. Danny boy - not strictly true, freezing them is a way of doing things but you must lower temp very slowly, I have had specific training on putting fish to sleep using MS222 anaesthetic but knocking them out with a priest (heavy club that minister's last rights) is recognised by ministry of agriculture for humane way to kill big fish. Bashing them or as some1 else put it fast indian bowling action on to a hard surface has the same effect as clubbing them but you better make sure its done swiftly. otherwise its cruelty which I dont condone!
07-07-2006 12:37 by Lexter	regarding freezing fish, i have read on the internet, quite a good and scientific article (havent got the link - sorry) - that if you put a fish in the freezer there is a high liklihood parts of his body and organs wills actually freeze before it dies, expecially the eyes i seem to remember - hence not a humane method i understand I used to use clove oil and vodka but it stinks and seems to permanently make the container you use smell. Now (as long as its a relatively small fish) I throw it down as hard as i can on the floor (concrete) - death is instant, i always check for a minute or so before i leave fish alone for 10 mins and then bin it.
07-07-2006 12:38 by	regarding the vodka - its my understanding that you need a TINY amount of alcohol to dissolve the clove oil or the clove oil doesnt mix, it just sits on the water surface.
07-07-2006 12:41 by Lexter	thats my post above by the way
07-07-2006 12:43 by D.R.	Would like to see that link Lex, The important thing to remember that tropical fish will be dead by the time water get seriously low temp. Goldfish will still be alive at a few degrees C. Water expands from 4oC -0oC, hence the slight swelling,
07-07-2006 12:47 by Lexter	lol D.R i just read you reference to my "fast bowling" technique, i honestly didnt mean to sound like a pi** taker with that comment, was an element of humour, but believe me, it works, its quick (fish goes from tank to dead within about 5 seconds) am very careful to make sure it works, the fish hits the floor with such force
07-07-2006 12:49 by Lexter	i know DR (about the link) but i defintly read it somewhere, is it true? the article hinted strongly that a fish's organs can freeze or parts of it can freeze before the fish actually passes away the article was REALLY AGAINST freezing fish i could try and google it, thats how i found the article in the first place
07-07-2006 12:53 by kell	Well I think the way I would kill the fish would be to smash inbetween 2 bricks, to me it seems death would be instant this way, I would definately have to cover the fish first so it couldnt see the brick coming. But thats a drastic measure at the moment, obviously if the fish is in distress I will put it out of its misery straight away. Thanks for that DR I wont be feeding the fish, but can I ask why I shouldnt feed it though? As th fish in question is a gold fish, I WILL NOT be freezing it(Iwouldnt anyway as a lot of people have said dont)
07-07-2006 12:58 by Lexter	D.R you know more than me, just wondering about this comment of yours though "The important thing to remember that tropical fish will be dead by the time water get seriously low temp" what about fish like guppies or mollies? i remember a horrible incident (and i mean this - makes me sad now thinking about it) I was about 13 or 14 and my dad bought a tank from Loot with fish already in it. The fish were quite large (from what i remember) Tiger Barbs. My dad didnt want the fish and the fish shop wouldnt take them, the shop (Highgate Aquarist) advised my dad to mix up some ice water, get it as cold as possible and drop the tiger barbs in it. He did this and i clearly remember (those fish went belly up within 1-2 seconds) Now a few months later I did the same thing with a few guppies that were ill (cant remember what with), and bear in mind my age here, was trying to do the right thing, got ice cold water ready, tons of ice, i mean that water was VERY COLD, i dropped about 3 or 4 guppies in and they were still swimming about after about 60 seconds (i think one died) So i took them out and put them back in the tank (i was shocked and panicked) and also felt sick because if what i had done. I cant remember how long the remaining guppies survived for after going back in my tank but they definitly didnt die anytime soon. Now D.R you probably referring to SLOWLY reducing the temp but it still gets me thinking about how "hardy" a fish is, surely this will slightly dictate how you should euthanise it?
07-07-2006 13:01 by D.R.	SMASH BETWEEN TO BRICKS THATS A NEW ONE You dont feed fish during medication etc because it requires more oxygen to metabolise the food. Fish will already be consuming oxygen to repair damaged tissue, osmoregulation and other physiological functions. This research was carried out by Stirling University aquaculture centre, some top fish vets there
07-07-2006 13:12 by D.R.	Lex - my preferred chose is to use a heavy club (priest), havent quite got my bowling technique up to scratch. Freezing fish slowly requires time and effort, bag the fish in water place over a bed of ice, then into the freezer. PFK did a small series on putting fish to sleep (few years back). Freezing was one of the listed humane ways. Another method was to cut through the spinal cord just behind the head to give instant paralysis. The barbs you put into the water would have certainly died of temperature shock as opposed to reduced metabolism. Not sure about the guppies that second time very strange. I know peeps from when I was at uni doing physiology experiments on guppies. Basically you lift the fish out of the water and describe what happens and how long it takes to die - sick and this was a taught module that students had to carry out.
07-07-2006 13:14 by rob r	im with lex quick slam to the floor easy n quick
07-07-2006 13:27 by D.R.	Sorry another point on the freezing debate is that the brain and other sensory organs (heart) would be pretty much incapacitated by the time the inside of the fish starts to freeze and then the internal organs would swell. Ministry of agricluture state that: an animal (includes fish and amphibians) is clinically dead when, There is cessation of the circulatory system (heart stops beating) or Destruction of the cranium (skull). So thats the official line guys & gals not my words. Whether you stop the heart from pumping by lowering the metabolism right down or anaesthetic, principle is the same.
07-07-2006 14:18 by Alan	I have been fortunate enough to avoid the need for euthanasing fish. However if it became necessary clove oil I beleive acts like an anaesthetic and will cause organ failure I think. Or the use of a meat cleaver and I would take the head clean off either way I'm not sure if I could do it. Incidentally I have brought fish back from near death I suspect many people jump the gone when euthanasing fish. One example was a plec (when I was a kid mind you) I had no bog wood in the tank and little algae I thought they were a scavenger at the time. Anyway it dissappeared for 2 weeks so I assumed it was dead and had been eaten by my other fish well it wasn't quite I found it behind and ornament up side down with an extremely hollow belly it was to week to swim. I got it to recover from this by hand feeding it I actually forced flake food into its mouth within a day it was strong enough to start looking for food on its own and by the time it was strong enough I had made the necessary changes so it had plenty of food I had the fish for another 5 years. As far as dropsy goes there are some effective remedies if dropsy is caught early enough one is sera baktopur which you are using another is esha 2000 I have heard of good results from both. PFK in fact did a write up on esha 2000 when it first came out they succesfully cured a fish with dropsy. Incidentally I have heard that freezing of fish is cruel and I read in PFK recently that they do not recommend this as a means of euthanasing a fish.
07-07-2006 14:46 by kell	Ive tried both esha200 and sera baktopur before and to be honest the esha did poor compared to the sera.
07-07-2006 15:07 by D.R.	Dropsy can be viral or bacterial induced, usually after sustained or systemic infections of some description. If viral then anti-bacterial meds are useless and its simply a matter for supporting the additional clinical signs of the fish. ie salt for isotonic environment.
07-07-2006 15:10 by D.R.	Kell see how the fish does. But keep in mind that infection may be in the other fish. Mentioned the other medication for the cyst in your other thread but may be too late for that. Polybase Cream is an antibiotic ointment, the only place that I know doing this are The Quality Koi Company in Yorkshire (Great setup in an old church) but I'm sure other Koi outlets will do the same. Quality Koi company website is http://www.koisuppliers.com/
07-07-2006 15:31 by telboy	feed it to the nieghbours cat,that way the cat'll run off with it saving you to dispose of body
07-07-2006 15:42 by D.R.	Very good Telboy, next thing the cat drops the fish on the next door neighbours kitchen floor. They phone you in a panic thinking that the cat has fished it out of your pond and insist on buying you a new fish
07-07-2006 17:57 by telboy	everyones a winner eh DR [except nieghbour of cause?]
07-07-2006 19:27 by Lexter	i've never had a fish recover from dropsy (mostly guppies) in my (sad) experience a fish with dropsy means the fish is already dead it just doesnt know it yet
07-07-2006 19:28 by Lexter	kell i wouldnt necessarily worry about your water quality (altho that needs to be considered sure) - for example i have NEVER had a non-guppy have dropsy, i think some fish are just more prone than others.
07-07-2006 20:23 by telboy	the only fish ive had dropsy with were goldfish when i 1st started keeping fish
08-07-2006 08:45 by kell	Well Ive checked the fish out and she looks better today, the swelling has gone right down and she isnt pineconed anymore, Im not going to get excited because I know how quick fish can get ill again.
09-07-2006 08:10 by kell	fish is still alive today, just a slight swelling on the site of her cyst, Ive added meds again today which is the end of her treatment, Im going to leave her in the meds until tuesday, when if everything is ok she will be added back in her tank during a waterchange, fingers crossed.
10-07-2006 09:55 by kell	fish is still alive today, looks the same as yesterday, she is still in treatment for today.
10-07-2006 10:06 by Lexter	looks like she might pull through then Kell
10-07-2006 10:13 by kell	hope so lexter

Previous | Fish Biz | Sitemap | Links | Clubs | Webmaster | Our Sponsors | ShopAds | Directory Visits