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Home      Reply		Viewed: 999 -- Replies: 9
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Posted	New to Marine Fish
13-09-2006 21:59 by pacman	Hi, I have successfully kept freshwater tropical fish for a couple of years and would like to try my hand at keeping marine fish. I have a Jewel Rio 125 tank which is 800mm x 500mm x 360mm. I read a bit, trawled the forum and must admit to being slightly confused as to whether: 1) My tank is big enough for fish only 2)The type and quantity of fish I could have 3) The type of equipment needed to make it suitable for a Marine environment 4) Where to start. I'm based in Southend on Sea in Essex and if there is anyone on the forum who could offer some help I would be extremely grateful. Thanks in advance, Peter
13-09-2006 22:48 by SallyJo	Hi Peter. The tank is probably the smallest size I'd try marines in - ours is a Jewel Rio 180, and it could really do with being bigger. I wouldn't go for fish only, because you'll have problems keeping the nitrite/nitrate/ammonia etc levels down. We have lots and lots of living rock, soft corals, red and blue legged crabs, couple of shrimps and some turbo snails, but only three fish - two clowns and a green gobi. It works very well. We have a Fluval 400 external filter, two power heads (for water movement over the rock/corals), a protein skimmer and two T5 lights. Any more lights on a small tank and it's difficult to keep the temperature down. Best advice we had was to make up the salt water, put in a load of living rock and leave it for a couple of weeks - then test the water before you even think about adding livestock. One of our major problems was keeping the nitrate and phosphate levels down. Unfortunately, tap water (for water changes) has a higher nitrate and phosphate level than the "dirty" water you want to change. We bought an R.O. unit (reverse osmosis) which fits onto a tap and removes just about everything from tap water. It's hard work, Peter, and quite expensive to set up, but the paying out slows down considerably and the rewards are well worth it. Better than TV any day. Best of luck. Hope I haven't put you off. Sally.
13-09-2006 23:28 by Rob_Ren	I am fairly new to tropical fish and know nothing about marine but one of my lfs has a tank of about 1 cubic foot. inside it has a sea horse and a clown fish that look happy (I think they have some sort of ozone unit or something on it). Oasis near the centre of machester, well worth a look if your in the area. http://www.oasisaquarium.co.uk/ unfortunatley there website doesn't give you much insight and does not do them justice. probably about 6 to 10 staff there some seem very knolagable some still seem quite new to the business. Try following this link, it has a Juwel Rio 240 conversion. http://www.aquariumsuperstore.co.uk/mall/tanks.asp
13-09-2006 23:43 by SallyJo	Major bit of subterfuge there, unfortunately. My lfs has marines in picture frame tanks (12" square, 2" front to back) - BUT they're all connected to the communal filtration system that takes up a complete room at the back of the shop. These small tanks look good (because you can't see any of the hardware) but they're a very expensive recipe for disaster.
14-09-2006 11:35 by Alan	Your best bet would be to set up a mini reef with a tank as small as yours shopping list should include the following: - Protein skimmer an airdriven should do the job go for either a lees or a berlin airlift or a sander or something of similar design. - Hi grade cured live rock to 1 kilo per 2 imp gallons I'm assuming your tank is 27 imp gallons so you would need 13 kilos I would round it up to 15 kilos. - Powerheads to turnover a threoretical maximum of about 2,500 litres per hour personally I would aim higher than this go for 4 maxijet1200's perhaps rig them up to a wave bar from the same manufacturer. Also you will need to put a small sponge over each pump inlet to prevent inverts being sucked into the impellor. - A small canister filter to run a UV sterilizer go for a small eheim classic no media in the canister apart from a phosphate remover this needs to be used from the start. - Lighting is critical on a tank the size of yours you will need to replace the standard lights with T5's lighting and appropriate flourescents for marine a mixture of white and blue actinics is ideal I would go for 3 or 4 tubes. You will need to consider adding additional vents to the hood or perhaps complete removal of the hood and replacing it with a T5 luminaire this will help reduce heat around the lighting and would also enable a clip on desk fan to be used to add gas exchange and provide some evaporative cooling. The use of cured live rock from the start means the tank is instantly matured so to speak so you can start adding stock as soon as the tank is up and running but I would suggest this is done carefully you do not have much space to play with. - You will need a heater to although it won't get much use but better to have one than not just in case it gets really cold in the winter. Fish to consider: Fridmani basslet Pyjama wrasse Pygmy angel Neon gobies Inverts to consider: Button polyps Pulsing xenia Small leather coral (but be prepared to rehome it these can get up to a metre across) Mushroom anemones Peppermint shrimps x 3 Cleaner shrimp x 2 Additional equipment: - Refractometer. - Bucket of salt the best I have used is TMC pro reef reef crystals are also good. - Test kits always go for salifert with marine as a minimum you will need the following: - Nitrate - PH - Carbonate hardness - Calcium - Magnesium - Phosphate And consider the following as additional kits that may be of use: - Nitrite - Iodine First and foremost though do absolutely loads of research and planning do not rush reef keeping as it will be a disaster and don't be tempted to over stock. Read books and up to date magazines such a practical fishkeeping this will help no end. And when aclimatising specimens a 20 minute float in the bag is nowhere near enough I bought a foxface on Wednesday in exchange for some coral frags and I spent 4 hours carefully aclimatising the fish as fish shops often keep fish at a very low salinity this reduces disease risk and stress for the fish in the shop if you aclimatise to quickly it will cause the fish to suffer kidney failure and die. To aclimatise the fish I float the bag and add half a cup full of tank water every ten minutes to the floating bag, if the bag ends up having to much water in it I will remove some of the water in the bag and disgard it. But continue adding water to the floating bag every ten minutes until the s.g. in the bag and the tank are the same and then net the fish out of the bag into the tank and disgard the water that is in the bag that will prevent anything other than the fish getting into the aquarium this is especially important if the fish is from a fish only system as it may also contain copper which is lethal to invertebrates. Hope that helps.
14-09-2006 13:58 by pacman	Wow! Thank you Sally, Rob and Alan for so much help and information. I’m still trying to digest all that information but wondered if I could throw a couple more questions into the mix. I kind of knew the tank is a bit on the small size. The family really wants me to have a setup that will allow us to keep a Clown fish (thanks Nemo!!!) and I would like a Dwarf Angelfish and Damselfish. If I decide keep Marines I can only do so if I give 110% - no half measures. I have nearly decided to make the switch from Freshwater to Marine; I just need to be sure I can afford to put in place a reasonable set-up. So: 1)Would I be better off with a Rio 180m or 240 (given the fish I would like to keep)? 2)Is it worth considering a second hand setup? 3)Is it better to have a tank with a sump? 4)I have a book called The Marine Aquarium by Nick Dakin, can anyone suggest any other good books. Thanks again for your help, Peter
14-09-2006 17:24 by SallyJo	Hi again. If you have the room, I'd go for the 240. The sump is an excellent idea, again if you have the available room. Personally, I wouldn't go for a second hand set up, unless you're prepared to do a lot of scrubbing - you never know why they really wanted to get rid of it. We have the Marine Aquarium - good book.
15-09-2006 10:19 by Alan	For piece of mind it is best to buy new and if you can get a set up with a sump do it will make life much easier for you. But if going for a sump steer clear of juwel as their cabinets and tanks are troublesome affairs if you wish to include a sump look into getting a tank specially made and drilled accordingly or go for the small aquamedic complete marine set up I think it is a 2x2x2 cube not sure has a weir and sump. For simplicities sake I would recommend going for a miracle mud set up this being a sump lit 24 hours a day with a special substrate (miracle mud) which acts as a perfect growing medium for caulerpa which will remove toxins from the water such as nitrate and some phosphates. As far as in the tank go for live rock as I have suggested. Some people will say you do not need a skimmer with this sort of set up but it is still worth having one in my opinion with the sump have it divided up into all the technical gubbin on one part followed by the miracle mud filter I say put the miracle mud filter after the technical gubbing because a skimmer after the miracle mud filter will remove much of the feeding benefit given by a miracle mud filter. You have a good book already I would suggest you subscribe to a couple of fishkeeping magazine definately practicalfishkeeping and there are a couple of marine only publications worth looking into and canvass a few shops to get their opinion on set up but be very aware that they are likely to try and over sell so to speak but you will get a lot of valuable information from good shops if you are in the south eastt I would recommend Paraquatics in hove world of fishes in felbridge and Sevenoaks Tropical Marine (STM) in Sevenoaks. These are all shops I have used and trust but at the end of the day they do have a living to make so be prepared to take the odd point with a pinch of salt. Main thing is research research and more research I would have a rethink on the damsel front one otgher thing to consider is a quarantine tank perhaps you could set up the 125 as a quarantine tank in a spare room or garage. This is something that is well worth doing one other thing to consider once you have the tank up and running with live rock and a few inverts leave it fishless for 2 months the reason for this is to insure you have no fish parasites present as if you get them in a reef there is no way to succesfully treat the reef. Then you quarantine every fish before putting it in the system includign the first fish I would suggest a pyjama wrasse very hardy peaceful to other species and enjoyable to watch darting around corals and rock work. Do not fall into the damsel trap they are evil little b*****s and will kill new additions if you have a shoal and will certainly bully new additions for some time which is not ideal for new additions. The only damsel I would consider would be the green chromis and a small shoal of these dependant on tank size bigger the tank the better. Just to give you an idea of stocking density I have a 55 gallon tank with a foxface coral beauty and a humbug damsel(the git) I only have the damsel because my misses likes the look of him its the only reason I bought him as I was just getting settled in to our new home together and having to do much grovelling to get my 3 fish tanks moved from my parents place. I'm going to add a pyjama wrasse to my tank and that will probably be it fish wise for the forseable future. My tank is a little experimental to say the least so I concentrate on maintaining the water quality and propogating one of my huge corals that has taken over the tank.
15-09-2006 23:48 by pacman	Thanks again Sally and Alan. I've taken all of your comments on board and they will certainly help with the decisions and choices I have to make. Alan - I don't really have room to setup a quarantine tank - will this be a problem? I am hoping to find a couple of magazines tomorrow and I'd also like to find someone in the area who keeps marine fish; although I realise there are plenty of people who have had to 'go it alone'. I was wondering, do marine tanks smell in any way as I am keen to site the tank in the lounge. I have a study in which the tank could be sited although the tank would not be in general view and I often like to sit and watch my fish. Having them in the lounge means they would be enjoyed more by the whole family. Also, are the various pumps and associated equipment very noisy? Thanks again, Peter.
19-09-2006 09:24 by Alan	Its not vital to have a quarantine tank but it is advisable especially if you intend to keep tangs. What I say about running the tank fishless for 2 months still stands though as this will at least reduce the likelihood of a parasitic outbreak you must take great care in choosing livestock though anything less than top condition is a no no. I would also advise you have a UV sterilizer consider this a must. As far as noise goes you will get some it depends how you run the tank really. High tech is generally more noisy due to more moving parts. You will get some noise though it is unavoidable but if you have a sump and providing you get the over flow design right a lot of the noisy stuff can be hidden away under the tank that should reduce the noise.

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