Home Adverts Recent Added Auction Scam Alerts Fishkeeping Forum List Your Ad ShopAds Videos Tropical Fish Aquariums & Equip Marine Fish & Marine Inverts Cichlids Malawi Tanganyikan Cichlids Wanted Discus Goldfish, Koi & Ponds Retailers & Services ALL ADS By County    Home      Reply     Viewed: 375 -- Replies: 39 PM | All Topics | General | Cichlids | Marine | Coldwater | Tanks/Equipment | Diseases | Members Posted Putting air into marine tanks. 15-02-2007 19:11 by Linda Chenapa When I posted some photos of one of my marine tanks, some people commented on the fact that I should NOT have an air stone in there as it could cause micro bubbles, which in turn, could cause damage to my fish. After EXTENSIVE research, I have found out that unless the air is put in under pressure, by a power head, for example, having an air stone is in fact benifical in case of pump failure. The tiny bubbles that you can see caused by a wooden air block are not micro bubbles, micro bubbles are much, much smaller. Decompression sickness (DCS), the diver’s disease, is the same as fish can get if micro bubbles enter their blood stream. Some fish like swimming through the stream of bubbles so this to me is proof that it does them no harm. I am sure that others will post their views, and that is fine by me, we are all entitled to our opinions. In fact I spoke to an expert, some one who has taken exams in fish keeping, yesterday and he confirmed my opinion. 15-02-2007 19:25 by wayne ok linda , cant have a pop at you , but 1 thing people who take exams usualy have no common sense , look at alan he did nt even know what c&p was i went to wickfords with kevin and i saw a tank thier with an air stone in it ,i wouldnt do it myself just personal preferance 15-02-2007 19:30 by Neutralle Linda, in my opinion you are completely correct..at every point. I am glad justfor once that there is someone who doesn't mind bubbles in the tank.. I have always had an airstone at the back of my tank, and the products of this addition have only ever been positive. I have found that polyp extension is greater, much the same as when you have a good skimmer working with the addition of oxygen it brings (im sure Alan had the same view on a recent skimmer thread). The only time i have ever turned my air stone off, and the skimmer is to photograph the tank, as the camera doesnt like focusing on millions of bubbles!! I have a photos to prove the "non negative effect" if you want to see them...lol..Hail bubbles.. 15-02-2007 19:36 by Neutralle The only time i can foresee you might have a problem is if you were to over saturate the water with oxygen, but i reckon you would have to REALLY pound the tank with bubbles to do that,I use a ceramic air stone so the bubbles arent so small i guess, but i still wouldnt take it out... Its all about perspective i guess.. 15-02-2007 19:55 by JOHANSWAN end off the day it is each one to his own tank and prefrance and up to now nobody enforced anyone not to have an airstone in a marinetank it was only advice and personal prefrance and i still need to find a airstone with bubbles in the ocean 15-02-2007 19:57 by wayne i use air in my sump in my alfagrog but thats it 15-02-2007 20:03 by Neutralle You are right Johanswan,, it is personal preference, but then again they advertise Daz on buses but ive never seen anyone take their washing in for a clean...lol Linda.. my tank...with an air stone. 15-02-2007 20:12 by JOHANSWAN nice tank mate 15-02-2007 20:22 by jonie nice tank neutralle 15-02-2007 20:25 by Linda Chenapa nice tank 15-02-2007 20:27 by Neutralle Thanks Matey, it really is down to preference, but like i said, i think its only a problem if you over do it,only bad things happen quickly in a marine tank...lol... i'm sure iv'e said that before.. Anyway, iv'e said my piece, its lindas thread.... Over to you Linda, youv'e started a thread storm.... 15-02-2007 21:24 by trik i just wrote a big reply for this then deleted it, find out for your self , sorry,hope all dont die 15-02-2007 21:25 by trik Neutralle nice looking tank you have there, have i not seen that else where? 15-02-2007 21:58 by Neutralle trik, i posted it on the thread for Metal halides, i was considering getting 20k bulbs instead of the 14k's i have... Glad you like the tank. I might start a thread with some pics. 15-02-2007 22:19 by Linda Chenapa I would be interested in your opinion trik 15-02-2007 22:29 by Neutralle Trik,can you post that reply.. Hope all dont die? Can you elaborate..if you know something we could do with knowing please re post.. Mark H. 16-02-2007 18:57 by trik well here you go guys. http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/diffuser,_oxygen_bubbles.htm dont say i didnt tell you loads of times this is why micro bubbles is done out of tank ie skimmer. 16-02-2007 19:16 by paul stevens oxygen bubbles link...... 16-02-2007 19:27 by trik thanks mate 16-02-2007 19:48 by Neutralle Trik you right, but i think (ime) that they are talking about compressed oxygen being produced with force into sea water..with the sole intention of creating a bubble wall. I would estimate that the bubbles in my tank are around 1 to 2 mm wide at least. I would NEVER recommend the ammount of fine bubbles as you quite rightly pointed out. Theres a distinct and very important line between aeration and total fluid saturation (as in the link with 'milky' water)...besides, i wouldn't be able to see my corals.... Thankyou for re posting. 16-02-2007 20:53 by Linda Chenapa Read it, just need to point out that they are talking about putting OXYGEN in under pressure, I am talking about putting AIR into a tank. Air is Not Oxygen. COMPRESSED OXYGEN is a good thing when supplied continuously within safe dissolved oxygen concentrations, but exposure to COMPRESSED OXYGEN or delivered at high partial pressures can physically harm your fish. With EXTREMLY HIGH OXYGEN PARTIAL PRESSURE in the water, the fish may stop breathing, allowing carbon dioxide to build up in the fish. This may lead to acid-base changes (respiratory acidosis) in the fish and increase delayed mortality after release. It is important to remember that PURE COMPRESSED OXYGEN contains five times the oxygen content as AIR does. Thus, proportionately less (about 1/5 less) gas flows (bubbling rates) are needed from a pure oxygen supply, compared with an air supply, to adequately oxygenate water for fish 16-02-2007 20:54 by Linda Chenapa AIR defined by Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere OXYGEN defined by Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen 16-02-2007 20:55 by trik yes but if you have a air stone in the tank with say tunze power heads they then suck in your 1/2mm air bubbles and they get smaller, read the last page with the pics from Professor Claude E. Boyd, Ph.D. Auburn University Department of Fisheries and Allied Aquaculture Auburn, AL 36849 (334) 844-4078 ceboyd@acesag.auburn.edu Specialty: Water Quality and Aeration Systems and look at the pics, power head in water , well a yanky power head anyway 16-02-2007 21:05 by Linda Chenapa Looked at the pics and you can see that this one has a venturi on it. 16-02-2007 21:06 by Linda Chenapa Anyone that has a tank that looks like that needs to be shot 18-02-2007 14:14 by commissar trik some people just dont want to hear what you have to say to them i just hope for the fishes sake they never get any build up of air pollutants (air freshners /scented candles/scented oils /smoke /cooking fumes )to name a few that will kill fish and are found in common air oh and a micro bubble doesnt have to be pure oxygen either 18-02-2007 14:28 by Linda Chenapa commissar - I have read all that trik has posted, so far he has not proved that putting air into a tank via an air pump that produces AIR bubbles, as opposed to PURE OXYGEN bubbles, can cause any damage to fish. Hands up all of you that have an air-stone in your tropical tank? The only difference is that in a marine tank. the bubbles are finer, NOT micro bubbles. The AIR or OXYGEN HAS to go in under pressure to cause any damage to fish as far as I have read and what trik has posted and quoted. If you can prove this to be wrong, then please do so as I would like to KNOW what is correct, not just people's personal preferences. As a note, when the air pump is on, it actualy cools the water. 18-02-2007 15:14 by Neutralle Commissar, To be fair, I DID want to hear what Trik has to say, as you can see from what i have written above...I asked for Trik to re post. The points raised are very valid, as were Lindas. In reality if we apply any rule to excess then it will end in disaster. I have used airstones for about 10 yrs in my tanks,but then again they dont produce microbubbles. I have found that this enables me to keep an oxygen level at 6.8 to 7.3 mg per litre comfortably without having to resort to a re circ system that resembles a hydro pumping station.Maybe thats another topic....lol Horses for courses i guess.. 18-02-2007 17:35 by trik This is my last input into this thread and any one can take the advice from either way. It all boils down to basic knowledge of marine fish and corals "OSMOSIS" somthing that a beginer should know from start, yes by all means in a trop tank use an air stone as the trop fish use water in a different way to marines. im going to quote a few replys from other well known bb sites from around the world as far as air stones in a marine setup, also not forgetting that the blue air stones are no good in salt water as they break down and release some BAD toxins, thats why a wood air diffuser is used in some skimmers, lol. "if you want to increase your O2 levels in your main tank then surface agitation with a good water turn over is best for keeping your ph stable without the worry of harming your fish or corals with bubbles in you display tank" "Thats enough convincing for me,,im unplugging mine .Ahhhh great less noise also and one more plug free,tho im sure i will find something else to put in its place very soon.Infact i just have,i like the look of them new tunze powerheads." "the gas exchange from an agitated surface is far greater than anything you would get from an airstone or even a skimmer, so bottom line is that air stones are pointless and look pants" "The bubbles also damage sponges etc " "By far the best way to ensure high oxygen levels is to ensure you have sufficient surface water movement, which will probably happen anyway if you have the recommended levels of water movement (usually 20x volume plus per hour) in the tank." "bubbles in tanks do two things. firstly they can settle on corals and then act as magnifying glasses meaning your halides intensity is increased to skin burning levels. and secondly there is something called 'gas bubble disease" But hey i dont need to do an exam as i no and have seen for my self in many years of marine/reef what this can lead to. Each to there own i say. My last word . 18-02-2007 18:18 by Linda Chenapa Thank you trik 18-02-2007 18:41 by trik 18-02-2007 19:02 by Neutralle *** i love a good discussion/ post...........lol 18-02-2007 19:03 by Neutralle Anyway Trik i thought your last word was your last word...or dont emoticons count....pmsl 18-02-2007 19:35 by trik 18-02-2007 19:53 by Linda Chenapa Zyxt, the last word in the English dictionary 18-02-2007 20:19 by Neutralle *** ive just been zyxt'd.... 18-02-2007 20:48 by Linda Chenapa Hope it wasn't too painless......I mean painful 18-02-2007 20:50 by Linda Chenapa The definition of 'zyxt,' a Kentish dialect word for the past participle of the verb 'to see' 19-02-2007 10:27 by Alan This is based on my own personal experience before anyone starts barating me. Firstly I used to use an airstone in my first set up as marine, also used to use a couple of cansiter filters and a fluidised sand bed (oh the stupid mistake I made). Anyway the air bubbles didn't do the fish any harm but they did upset the corals I noticed a marked increase in polyp extension after the bubbles were removed. The point I made on the skimmer within a reef is that you get all the benefits of an airstone without the downside of the tank being full of bubbles, again when the skimmer is working there is a marked difference in polyp extension versus when it is off pressumably due to it driving off CO2 and increasing the surface area of the tank greatly whilst not allowing bubbles into the main body of water. As far as no micro bubbles coming out of a wooden airblock how would you know they are micro so you wouldn't be able to see them? This is just my opinion though. 21-02-2007 07:53 by Linda Chenapa 'As far as no micro bubbles coming out of a wooden airblock how would you know they are micro so you wouldn't be able to see them?' I agree Alan but the point is they would have to be put in under a lot higher pressure than an air pump could. This is just my opinion though and that of others that I have researched. NEW REPLIES ARE NOW CLOSED ON THIS FORUM We invite you to join the NEW Aquarist Classifieds Fishkeeping Forum HERE Your contributions to this forum are greatly appreciated. This forum will be retained in archive status for reference. Adverts Previous Fish Biz Sitemap Links All Sponsor Clubs Webmaster Our Sponsors ShopAds Visits

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