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| Posted | Frozen Baby Brine Shrimp vs Live Baby Brine Shrimp |
| 26-07-2007 22:18 by mwilde |
I know Live is probably better but is frozen BBS any good? I have some guppies that i give it to, having live is too much of a hassle, i only have a couple of tanks and have no space for loads of BBS hatchers to provide a fresh supply ever day. |
| 26-07-2007 23:06 by alan78 |
unless you are retired and have 16 hrs a day to play with forget live i did it for a while its a hassle and i notice no difference in fish development between live and frozen and in fact nutritionally there is not a lot if any difference |
| 26-07-2007 23:31 by mwilde |
Thanks Alan78 thats what i was hoping someone would say.
What brand do you use? Or are they all the same? |
| 27-07-2007 09:47 by D.R. |
Frozen BBS is more convenient as mentioned.
However, you'll always have more nutrition from live food - whatever it is. freezing - splits the cells and tissue of the food. This allows nutrients, protein and vitamins to leach out from the food when thawing, a lot of the nutrients are wasted. Still.... its a good starter food if fed correctly |
| 27-07-2007 16:32 by Danny Boy |
frozen is better in respect of your fish catching any illness. the freezing process will kill most 'nasties' |
| 27-07-2007 18:46 by graham penney |
I'd agree with DR, however what you must remember is that when using frozen foods, the liquor which enters your aquarium from the thawing process degrades your water quality & is a broth for the bacteria's. While the bacteria's are feeding on this "soup", thay are becoming stronger & more mass, which inturn strips the water of O2 & puts more pressure on your filter system.
Feeding "cleaned" live is far superior. Challenge: Take a clear glass tumbler, fill with tap water & drop a cube of "quality" frozen onto the surface. Allow this to thaw in the water without disturbing it. WHAT you should have at the base of the tumbler is "WHOLE PRODUCT",with CLEAR water above. What I'm sure you will find is the water column is cloudy & bitty, this is due to the way the manufacturers simply thaw & re-freeze the product. Take a close look at Bloodworm. Bloodworm which is frozen FRESH is deep red & "coils up". Most frozen (f.ex)BW is ALREADY ~50% DEAD BEFORE FREEZING.....leaving long & stretched worms of doubtfull colour. I could harp on for days on this subject;) graham  |
| 27-07-2007 19:16 by alan78 |
graham i am not actively disputing your statement, but have you anything to substantiate this
"I'd agree with DR, however what you must remember is that when using frozen foods, the liquor which enters your aquarium from the thawing process degrades your water quality & is a broth for the bacteria's. While the bacteria's are feeding on this "soup", thay are becoming stronger & more mass, which inturn strips the water of O2 & puts more pressure on your filter system" it seems possibly true in theory but perhaps exaggerated? I certainly can see no logical reason why (or even who the heck could measure this) if frozen food (the soup you mention) contains more bacteria (and potentially harmful bacteria) than live food itself I am not saying you are "scare-mongering" just interested However i am willing and eager to "learn something new" so to spean you know dis-respect |
| 27-07-2007 19:19 by alan78 |
good idea about the tumbler Graham but i must say i do this already with my bloodworm so i can distribute it more evenly in the tank and i must say i am sure almost all of it comes out quite bright red when defrosted, perhaps not every single worm but the vast majority.
And if you buy "live" bloodworm how many of the worms are "live", all of them? i think not. Dont mean to be awkward Graham  |
| 27-07-2007 22:09 by graham penney |
Hi Alan,
Ref the liquor: it's well known/documented that the liquor/soup contains the leached particals etc, which when incubated at warm (aquarium) temps WILL offer the correct "feed source" for ALL bacteria to feed upon. Classic example is when you get a sudden die off (esp in a low water volume fry tank) for "no explicable reason". To measure this effect, simple get hold of a bacterial strip (try TA Aquaculture they may do one which will work) & do a dip test on the liquor incubated at 30c for 24hrs, you'll be amazed at the bacterial colonies found. The tumbler effect is also well known in aquaculture circles when testing for "quality" of frozen foods. Do you believe that the Frozen manufacture buys "live Brine Shrimp/Daphnia Etc" then freezes it, think not KNOW NOT. They buy mass frozen blocks from China/Baltics etc, then defrost them so that they can go through there "piping nozzles". Whilst all this thawing is going on, many hrs, the product degrades by bacterial action, gets banged around thus breaks up into smaller bits then eventually gets re-frozen. Not to say that somewhere along the trail it gets a dose of preservatives (Pot Sorb/ Erythorbate, any of the E# preservatives)to ward of the bacterias showing in the product. Hope this helps, graham |
| 27-07-2007 22:12 by alan78 |
i am sure you are on to something Graham, and if truth be told the only way to "semi guarentee" some "good" quality of food to fish is if we make it ourselves, which is probably not practical
but at the end of the day they are fish..... and i am still a firm believer (from many years experience) that frozen food beat live food for risk |
| 27-07-2007 22:14 by alan78 |
although the point of the thread it has to be said is Brine Shrimp, and i still think its a royal pain in the rectum doing your own brine shrimp (live) |
| 27-07-2007 22:19 by graham penney |
Can't agree more their with you Alan,
Graham Yorkshire Brine Shrimp Supplies  |
| 27-07-2007 22:25 by alan78 |
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| 28-07-2007 11:26 by mwilde |
Thank you everyone for your comments. Its been an intresting thread. I cant say im sitll 100% sure what to do, but i think for now im going to stick to frozen. I only have 4 10 gallon tanks in my home office, so dont really have the space to setup multiple BBS hatchers. I did get a small one that goes inside the tank, but it wont produce the ammount needed each day so im not going to bother. Alan What brand of BBS do you use? |
| 28-07-2007 12:12 by alan78 |
i use a variety, i am not sure if there is much difference to be honest? Whatever the LFS is selling! |
| 28-07-2007 13:10 by graham penney |
mwilde:
All you'd need is enough space to place a 2lt pop bottle or two. If your working out of an office, I trust it's heated at ~ 25c. One 2lt bottle, filled to 1.5lt will hatch you ~ 5-gm eggs @ 200,000 nauplii/gm material, ie 100,000 live baby Brine Shrimp per hatch, give or take a few. graham |
| 28-07-2007 17:24 by mwilde |
how many guppy / guppy fry will 100,000 feed?
Also how long with they stay alive. Another words what i want to know is how often do i have to setup a new bottle? |
| 28-07-2007 19:16 by graham penney |
In reply to your Q's.
1. 100,000 nauplii will feed 100,000 fish @ 1 each. 2. In the pop bottle, 24hrs after first hatch. Suggest you transferre to 2nd bottle (fresh sea water) for upto 3 days @ cool temps. 3. Each his own. graham |
| 30-07-2007 09:11 by D.R. |
I would have to support GP's comments about bacteria...
My main work area is Microbiology and you would be surprised at how quickly the colony numbers could increase. If the foods are not gamma radiated then harmful bacteria lurking in the frozen foods will increase when thawed. Usually bacteria have a lag phase... this could be up to several hours from when the food was frozen. After that the bacteria switch to log phase, where the numbers accelerate. Moral of the story is - to feed as soon as or shortly after they have thawed out. Many of the aquarium bacteria that flourish during this enrichment (soup) are relatively harmless. They will cause a slight spike in ammonia levels but a mature filter will deal with this. Normally (in the established aquarium) other beasties such as rotifers, paramecium etc will feed off the soup mix... so it can have its advantages, but like everything - keep the balance by feeding little and often. There are however, very good suppliers of quality frozen food... Ruto advertise on the classifieds section. |
| 30-07-2007 12:28 by mwilde |
Thanks again.
Ruto dont do BBS though. Only adult BS. |
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