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| Posted | Yanton,How you getting on with the Discus? |
| 06-02-2008 22:00 by robert.pope |
any photos ? |
| 06-02-2008 23:09 by yanton |
had problems - fishkeeping is constant challenges.
i had 10 adults and now only left with 3. these are all red pigeons. not yet seen them feeding, i think they are surviving on a few live guppies. done water changes, and they have plenty of cover, but they just dont seem happy ... |
| 06-02-2008 23:21 by Ray |
good grief how can you lose so many fish,what are the water params,how long have you had them? have you spoken to whoever they came from? Guppies?tanks size? what else is in the tank with them? |
| 07-02-2008 00:18 by robert.pope |
 sory to hear this about your new project!
as ray said .....can you give more details on the set-up etc? |
| 07-02-2008 06:44 by yanton |
bear in mind that just because some guppies were in the 6ft tank with them, that i am an experienced hobbyist - there is nothing wrong with guppies 
the setup is running with 3 large external eheims as well as going through a large carbon filter. after keeping marines and delicate inverts, malawis and tanganyikans, loads of other specioes - i think discus are not for me ... |
| 07-02-2008 09:21 by stevebrillo |
sorry to hear yanton... |
| 07-02-2008 11:54 by Alan |
What are the symptoms?
Have they gone black in colour? Could it be an internal parasite problem which is common with discus when stressed? What sort of water are you using if tap it may be contaminated with heavy metals this is why Discus are a challenge far more sensitive to it than other species. Have you considered using a wormer like womerplus? |
| 07-02-2008 13:50 by Ray |
Ok I mentioned guppies which as most people know prefer hard water,so I would question if a set up that they were thriving in is not the correct water for Discus.
I dont understand why you will not discuss the water conditions or how long you have had the fish,one problem I can see from your reply is that you are using a carbon filter.this could be exhausted and releasing posion into the water or it could be stripping trace elements from the water. I think you have taken me the wrong way I only want to help,it is sad to think of 7 Discus dying and a possible 3 more going to die,but if you wont tell us the required info or post pics there is little that can be achieved. |
| 07-02-2008 15:50 by yanton |
here are a few pictures of the aquarium.
it is a new carbon filter.  |
| 07-02-2008 15:50 by yanton |
...
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| 07-02-2008 15:50 by yanton |
...
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| 07-02-2008 15:51 by yanton |
couldnt get a clear pic of the discus
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| 07-02-2008 15:51 by yanton |
...
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| 07-02-2008 15:52 by -Rob C- |
For a start the silver sharks will be scaring the discus as they are fast. What are your water conditions? How often are your water changes? |
| 07-02-2008 15:53 by yanton |
I also have a shoal of about 20 blue rams in there (look amazing and starting to colour up) plus the bala sharks brought in as dither fish. |
| 07-02-2008 15:56 by -Rob C- |
Do the rams actually shoal together?
The sharks will spook the discus, not make them more confident. |
| 07-02-2008 15:59 by yanton |
no, the discus are not particualry jumpy and the sharks just glide around.
Another discus pic:  |
| 07-02-2008 16:00 by yanton |
gorgeous fish (closer)
 |
| 07-02-2008 16:01 by yanton |
no signs of outward stress or health issues |
| 07-02-2008 17:09 by Ray |
The tank looks very new,not mature,silver sharks are a poor companion for Discus as they will eat quickly and spook the Discus,they will not like the high temperature and are not a dither fish,try cardinals,rummynose etc.
The eye on the photo looks cloudy and prodruding but that could be just the photo,why wont you post the water params? |
| 07-02-2008 17:42 by yanton |
no the eyes are clear - its just the photo.
will try and do a water test. |
| 07-02-2008 21:02 by Ed |
Yanton many years ago i was talking to eberhard shcultz the discus guy that used to own the highgate aquarists and he said to me about 15 years ago it was easier to keep moorish idols than discus that was hard to believe all that time ago.I remmember you putting the pic of the idol on here and thinking what a beauty,i am going into discus soon myself soon but cannot advise you on anything as lack of expertise i will just ask ray and the other guys as personel info is better than any book,after keeping marines for years without any major probs i could not keep the bombproof tilipia maria i had off telboy,maybe your better off having another bash good luck. |
| 07-02-2008 23:03 by Fry Lover |
you tempted to go back to Malawi Yanton?
whats the normal params of tap water down your way? |
| 08-02-2008 10:06 by Alan |
Things to consider:
Tank Temperature is it high enough for the discus the right temp for the discus will probably be too high for the bala sharks. Also the skittish nature and ultimate size of the bala sharks will probably scare the hell out of the discus. There is insufficient cover in the tank for the discus hence I suspect your problems with feeding. I would add a considerable amount of bog wood to the tank this will stain the water adding to the security the fish will feel with the additional cover. Are you using tap water? What are the parameters of the water you are using? One other thing what lighting are you using? It looks like the discus are hiding from the light try adding floating plants to the tank to give more shade. I know these aren't wild fish but the ultimate requirements are the same in order for them to feel secure. They need cover and lots of it. Also os the tank in a high traffic area if so adding cover to the tank in the form of bog wood and smooth rocks becomes even more critical as discus are very nervous fish when they do not have enough cover. |
| 08-02-2008 15:56 by woody007 |
Hi guy's and girls,i live 20 miles from Yanton,and have met him ,about 18 months ago i purchased 12 baby 2-4 inch discus from a very experienced breeder local to me ,i had help from this breeder for quiet a while telling him the conditions of the water the tank mates,and with his advise did all i could to keep the discus happy ,BUT one by one they started to die untill i had none,my water is very soft ,the water in the tank as the breeder told me was spot on yet i lost the lot ,i now have african cichlids which i got from yanton,i have changed the water conditions for them and have lost 1 fish in 13 months,Discus just are not for me as great as they look i cannot afford to spend the kind of money on such finicky fish,,
ps i also keep gold and red shouldered severums and angels (no problem in other tank) |
| 08-02-2008 16:02 by woody007 |
Just one more point if you have seen Yanton's set up as i have you would see that if he is losing fish its not for the want of trying,he is a very experienced fish keeper |
| 08-02-2008 19:06 by Ed |
Yes woody we know he is experienced as he runs the website but i just think people wanted to help out not have a go.I myself have been keeping fish for over 30 years and lost around a hundred clown fish in one go mind you i just had them imported but it got to me not monetery wise but to see them all die over a period of 4 days was gutting.Have a go again and see how it turns out ,how many people do you see with a healthy moorish idol in there tank? anyway the next thing you will see is yantons discus for sale i dont know what chens going to say though |
| 08-02-2008 23:26 by big cats |
yanton,
your tank is too well lit ,too close to the ground , the gravel reflects too much light, the tank mates are totally unsuitable (and uncomfortable at these temps)there is insufficient cover,the flow rate is too high, i do not doubt your experience but you have no experience of discus (obviously). and i am not having ago cos i did exactly the same thing twelve years ago. return the water through overtank trickle filters use coal as a substrate you need five times as many plants and bogwood, half as much light and an aquarium background . only add fish that can cope with the temp, i have re read this and am concerned about one statement ,have you NEVER seen them eat? healthy discus eat like oscars and perhaps therin lies an answer or a question? where did you get them ? how long have you had them? healthy fish should eat, if you pm me i will send pics of my trickle box |
| 09-02-2008 10:38 by big cats |
i actually lost some sleep over this, even though the tank isnt perfect,no way should an experienced fishkeeper lose so many fish something is up ,big time ??? |
| 09-02-2008 12:03 by Ray |
This is probably the most interesting thread on here for a while.May I disagree wiyh Alan and Big cats that Discus require deep cover,this is not true the amount of cover in Tony's tank is fine,Again them not eating is a concern but many adult Discus can take a while to start feeding and a week or so is not a problem.What I feel is wrong here is the tank is too imature,there may have been a nitrite spike when large fish were added,and the sharks are a bad idea as they will outcompete for food with the Discus and spook them badly.
No body has been particularly helpfull here,myself included so may I suggest that Tony starts to use a TDS meter and basic tests to determine the water quality,I belive he lives in a soft water area so an HMA would be ideal to produce purer water,take out the gravel and use a thin layer of sand,remove the sharks and add rummey nose,cardinals etc.I would also worm/fluke them and reduce the light levels. Most of all dont give up,try to let the tank settle,the add a few more fish,but go for around 8/10cm size they will settle more readily,best of luck Ray. |
| 09-02-2008 12:22 by yanton |
The discus were wormed just prior to receiving.
The bala sharks are not skittish at all but just glide around and seem to work well as dither fish. The light is not too strong, it is only using one tube, the camera makes it look brighter than it is. All other fish such as the shoal of young blue rams in there are at the peak of health. I would say there is plenty of cover, after all they came from a bare tank. |
| 09-02-2008 12:28 by -Rob C- |
You keep justifying the sharks but I can almost guarantee they will be scaring the discus. They are too fast and as Ray has said will out compete the discus for food.
Ray is right about water quality too, an HMA filter could make a big difference. What have you been trying to feed the discus? What were they eating before? |
| 09-02-2008 16:41 by big cats |
healthy fish dont just die? either the water and tank are wrong or the fish are unhealthy(they dont look at all unhealthy)many people habe tried to be helpful,but there seems a reluctance to accept it? DUMP THE SHARKS THEY ARE WRONG FOR THE TANK!!!
were all the discus the same or were there other strains ?,i dont believe discus need deep cover however i believe more cover may be beneficial as there is a problem here, some discus may have been perfectly fine in this tank ,have you been testing the water,cos i believe you have not answered that question yet ?how often have you tested the water? how new is the tank or filter? |
| 09-02-2008 20:41 by Elmo |
i have kept discus for years and they are not hard to keep , i know this will sound daft but they either need a very mature tank with a low ph or regular water changes in a newer tank, by the looks of the fish they seem healthy, run the temp at 33 for a while as this can help, the sharks will have to be removed and once the rams grow and pair off they will become hugely aggressive and will chase an 8inch discus. they dont need that much cover so tank seems fine, try some live feed , bloodworm, brineshrimp etc..put some more dither fish, ie neons, cardinals etc once the discus see these feeding then they will start,use ro water if you can its much better,Yanton you seem a very good fish keeper, just go back to basics with them and dont be afraid to ask any questions,which some fishkeepers find a problem with doing. I have been keeping fish for 25 years and i still learn something new everytime. |
| 11-02-2008 19:21 by ChensDiscus |
I have been watching this interesting post for some time now and must admit, have thrown up a lot of possible problem with the fish. I have decided to post what I feel according to me is the problem.
There is no doubt on yanton's knowledge on fish keeping, but have to definitely agree that he has a lot to learn in keeping discus, the same applies to me after 13 years of discus keeping. While I agree to most of the potential reasons posted here by members, but there are some which I do not agree. I have listed below the possible reasons, which I have already communicated across to yanton. This is only my view based on my previous experience and is what I believe in. - We all talk about over-stocking discus fish, but never talk about under-stocking them. The day I took the fish to yanton, I told him that the tank is huge and required more fish in order to keep them happy. I also promised that i will make another trip to see him and deliver more fish so that the tank is properly stocked. Discus fish often go off feeding and are very skittish if they are kept in small numbers and a huge tank. They feel more comfortable in groups. - The tank location is another reason as it is kept on the floor(lower level). You will not come across any discus kept at the lower level. Discus are usually kept at middle level or the top level(if you know what I mean). Infact discus kept at upper level do much better than fish kept at other level. While discus fry and small ones can be kept lower level, adult fish find it difficult to adapt and are often skittish. We all know once discus get skittish, they do go off food and get stressed easily. - Discus dont do well with sharks in the same tank as they can be easily spooked, though I dont think this is the main reason for the problem. I did tell yanton when I met him the first time. - Water quality and strong current is not an issue here as I have seen yantons huge tank setup, including his filteration. Trust me his tank is huge and the pic dont show the actual size. the tank is fully matured and more than adequate filteration for 10 fish and maybe enough for another 10-15 discus. - From my previous experience, discus fish do well in any water, be it tap water, RO water, HMA, rain water or de-ionised water as long as they are kept for display purpose. I know a lot of people might think otherwise, but I personally feel and believe that young discus are best kept in very hard water for them to grow properly. Obviously we need to use either a RO or HMA for breeding purposes (except red turq which I have breed in london tap water  ).
Discus are very very easy to keep while on the other hand they can be a nightmare, depending on the owner. A few simple things kept in mind will ensure an enjoyable hobby. While a few simple mistake can cause stress to the fish and stress can throw up a lot of problem as their immune system is usually down. I have spoken to yanton in detail and will be meeting him again in the next couple of weeks. I am sure he now know the problem areas and i am pretty confident he will have another post very soon showing off his discus |
| 11-02-2008 19:24 by ChensDiscus |
Forgot to mention that yanton have now got one pair of chequerboard pigeons from the three, which clearly shows that the fish are normal and feeding. From what yanton says, they dont feed on the food thrown in the tank, but have lost a lot of guppy fry, which is an indication that the fish are feeding, but are very skittish. |
| 11-02-2008 19:55 by Fry Lover |
Interesting about the hard water Chen when rearing discus young. |
| 11-02-2008 22:08 by yanton |
yes two of the discus have paired off, and today they started eating some frozen bloodworm. maybe it is a case of gradually settling in. |
| 11-02-2008 22:15 by telboy |
lets hope so "yanton"fingers crossed mate |
| 12-02-2008 08:38 by big cats |
if you have discus pairing in that tank then there is a real possibility that there was something wrong with the fish that died. discus fry grow better in harder water than their parents require for successful spawning, spawning in the wild occurs in old slow moving low river water that is saturated with tannins, so the pairs expect this after millions of years of evolution, the spawning is timed so they are hatching just before the floods, because the fry stand a better chance of survival in the flooded forest, the new fresh water brings with it a far higher level of hardness from dissolved salts picked up as it rages downstream so the fry have evolved to thrive in harder water (its still not really hard)sorry for any mistakes in grammar i sometimes write like i talk?? |
| 12-02-2008 08:41 by big cats |
i should add that this hardness is a carbonate hardness and therefor temporary it is not a general hardness and the fry need this hardness to drop slowly as they grow
ah what a mine of useless information? i am  |
| 12-02-2008 13:15 by yanton |
I am sure there was nothing wrong with the fish, I suspect one reason was the gravel which I got from a garden centre (as I wanted a grey colour gravel) and although rinsed, maybe not enough - and I wonder if the filters including a large charcoal filer removed this problem from the water.
The red pigeons which I still have are magnificent fish and a definate pair has formed. I may move them all to a 4ft tank which I have ready, which has lots of plants and cover for them. The large tank (6ft) may be spooking them a bit, so a smaller tank should maske them feel even more at home. |
| 12-02-2008 14:02 by Ed |
Top thread robert lots of interesting hints and knowledge . |
| 12-02-2008 17:30 by yanton |
... and yes, I will take your suggestion when I move the fish to the 4ft tank, this will be without the bala sharks. |
| 12-02-2008 17:42 by robert.pope |
 i only started this thread as i knwe yanton was getting some discus and wonderd how things were going !
it has been intresting! i myself had a pair form and spawn only last night  then eat their eggs
i am sure yanton will soon be raising babys that will replace his losses  hope hes not been to stressed over it all ! i know i would have been !
with discus i have learnt to be more patient and keep things simple .....the fish will show you when things are going wrong! good luck with future discus yanton! regards robert |
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