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Home      Reply		Viewed: 547 -- Replies: 12
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Posted	missing an eye
10-09-2005 20:48 by lefteye	hi y'all i have a problem with one of my fish in my community tank. my gourami has an eye missing as does one of my platys, the other fish in the tank are common pleco 5 platy 1 opaline gourami and 7 neons any ideas?
10-09-2005 20:55 by norman	all i can say is just keep an eye on them
10-09-2005 21:11 by danny boy	hi lefteye, without seeing the fish i would thing it could be one of a few things. 1) its an aggression problem but seeing as you have a gourami thats damaged its pretty unlikely as these are semi aggressive fish anyway. and i cant see the pleco, platy or neons attacking it my theory would be that your fish may have tuberculosis. its not all that common but can be very dangerous to you and the rest of the fish. do they have clamped fins? (holding fins close to the body?) or do they look slimmer than your used to seeing them look? if it is tuberculosis be very careful as you can catch it yourself. i think its impossible to treat so you may have to euthanise them both but you may find it has spread across the tank. do you have any pictures you could post?
10-09-2005 21:37 by Linda	Exactly what symptoms appear depend on the affected species (and presumably on the bacterium). In the early stages of the disease, no symptoms whatsoever are apparent and the only way to diagnose the disease is by dissection and microscopic examination of the internal organs (especially the intestines, liver and kidneys), where tuberculous cysts may be found. All the bacteria of the genus Myobacterium are acid-alcohol fast, this is to say that the bacteria, after having been stained with a phenol solution of fuchsine, retain this stain on treatment with a dilute mineral acid and ethanol. Clearly such tests are not for the usual amateur aquarist! The tubercles are formed initially in the internal organs and appear as small, dirty grey knots, often containing necrotic tissue of blackish colour. These tubercles may have very different sizes and, especially in small fish, may only be found with the aid of a microscope. Normal tissue is pushed aside by the growing tubercles and if these tubercles grow near or into a blood vessel the circulation can be hindered and sometimes bleeding can occur. The infection may also spread to the skeleton and then deformities may result, such as crooked spine, deformed cheeks and damaged fin-rays. Clearly such deformities weaken the fish which will die as soon as the damage gets too severe. However the more delicate species may die an an early stage, before any visible symptoms appear. The more robust specimens, particularly if their general health is good, can withstand the disease much longer and will only die when some of the visible symptoms occur. There is a huge range of visible symptoms, most of which are not specifically diagnostic of fish TB as they can also occur with other diseases. So thre os an extremely good chance of fish TB being incorrectly diagnosed as something else entirely - which would indicate that fish TB is likely to be far commoner than most books (and fish dealers!) would admit. Although Sterba's book was written in the 60s, maybe his pessimistic-seeming "25-30% of fish are infected" is not as pessimistic as it might seem! Symptoms can include: Loss of appetite Progressive thinness Sluggish movement Folded fins Eye protrusion Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish). Skeletal deformity Hanging at the surface Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly). Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out. Scales loosening and falling out General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy) Can Fish TB affect humans? Most of the info you will find on the www seems to indicate that fish TB can infect humans. However - most of this info refers to the marine disease, caused by Myobacterium marinum. In Freshwater fish, the disease has different causal bacteria and both the books I have indicate these are not dangerous to humans and that these bacteria are generally only dangerous in cold-blooded organisms, so trouble in humans would seem to be unlikely. Tropical fish-keeping is so common, and fish TB so common, that surely if there were any danger, freshwater fish TB would be much better investigated and not the cause of mystery deaths that it quite clearly is!
10-09-2005 21:39 by Linda	I don't think it is TB.If you are worried, which you should be, I suggest that you consult a vet.
10-09-2005 21:50 by lefteye	looking at my fish again many of the signs are there they are thinner and not eating at all the gourami has black spots too but i dont know if they were already there or not and he has scales missing. the platy has very slim rear fin (i dont know what it is called) and its very sluggish. all of the fish in the tank are the same. should i really go see the vet? seems a little extreme for a few fish
10-09-2005 22:03 by Linda	If you don't want to take them to a vet, maybe you could just phone one and ask for some advice? They may only be a few fish but they are in your care.
10-09-2005 22:04 by danny boy	depends on how much you value your fish? do a little research on google and see if anything else turns up.
10-09-2005 22:07 by danny boy	linda i was so impressed with your answer, but next time you can give the writer credit and just show the whole link so left eye and the rest of us can read it all! http://www.4qd.org/Aqua/disease/tb.html
10-09-2005 22:17 by Linda	I never said I wrote it.I thought it easier to post the whole thing or you have to exit etc to visit the site.
10-09-2005 22:28 by Whatever	Did it used to have both it's eyes?
11-09-2005 13:25 by lefteye	hi guys thanks for the info ive done more research on the matter and i am pretty sure my fish have TB just to add on thaat every site ive looked at does say that it is contagious to humans so please beware. .thanks for the heads up danny boy i have decided that due to no cure i will be killing the two fish in the hope that it hasnt spread
11-09-2005 14:50 by Jack	Here is an excert from a web site I found. Lefteye - I realy think if you ARE convinced that your fish have TB, that you follow this drs advice. In order to prevent transfer of various aquatic diseases/parasites from natural waters to humans, or from tank to tank and/or to humans, the following safety practices should be followed: 1….Do not stick hands and arms into tanks (or go into natural waters), or handle aquatic organisms, if you have an open or recent wound. 2….Use protective gloves. We found that using shoulder-length gloves that veterinarians use while working with cows are useful in protecting arms with recent wounds while doing tank work. 3….Do not dive in a tank (or natural waters) containing Vibrio vulnificus if you have an open or recent wound or you are prone to nose bleeds. The water from a tank should be checked for Vibrio vulnificus by a microbiology lab prior to any dive. 4….Sterilize hands and arms with chlorine water (use alcohol if there are wounds) after work in one tank and prior to working on another tank, or rinse hands and arms thoroughly with city water. 5….Wash hands thoroughly (or sterilize) after handling turtles and other reptiles to avoid infection by Salmonella. 6….Never start a tank siphon with mouth suction. 7….If an injury occurs while working in a tank (or natural waters), let wound bleed freely for a while to push possible infecting bacteria back out of the body, then sterilize and protect wound. 8….Seek medical help ASAP if infection spreads (or red streaks occur), throbs, is very painful, or appears different in any way from your "usual" infections. Conversely, you should not go into a tank with an infection that might inoculate your tank with your bacteria, and which might affect tank occupants, or you again at a later date. Clean (or sterilize) hands and arms before doing tank work. Those people with weakened immune systems are at greater risk for getting infections. So people with AIDS, diabetes, liver dysfunction, kidney problems, or those undergoing cancer treatment, or of old age, etc. should be especially careful when working on tanks, handling aquatic organisms, or getting into natural aquatic environments. To protect future tank occupants, break down and sterilize a tank infested with fish TB with chlorox Also this ….Man had a freshwater fish die from, apparently, fish TB. At the time of fish death, fish was isolated in its own tank. About the same time, man developed bumps on his hand and fingers, which had an open wound at the same time. These bumps were biopsied at a dermatologist's and the diagnosis of M. marinum was confirmed. He took an antibiotic and the bumps (granulomas) began dissipating; his doctor told him the bumps would dissipate on their own but that it could take upwards of a year. Should we all give up fish keeping now ??!!!

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